A Conversation for The Forum

Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 1

Pinniped

I’ve never belonged to a political party. The one I’ve been closest to in sentiment down the years, though, is Labour. Admittedly that’s partly because I never believed the Liberals would ever again get close enough to Whitehall to be worth considering. But somewhere in that territory, left of centre with a passion for inclusivity and a belief in collective spirit, that’s where my young heart proudly set itself and where my old one returns on its less bitter days.

Today, Labour takes a big decision. I feel a need to do some colour-nailing, such as I have any. This is not a debating point for me. It’s more of a declaration. I’m posting it here to allow others to make their own declarations alongside.

Brothers can be very different, but they understand each other and they are made of common stuff. Their differences are more in the company they keep than of themselves. The Milibands are hitched to different causes. What they will be allowed to do in Opposition and perhaps in Government is coloured by their communities, and the choices and commitments they’ve made in getting to this point will be hard to go back on. Though it seems there are no such things as irrevocable promises in politics, this looks as close as they come.

I don’t hate theTories. I do hate the way that they fix things. It’s divisive and painful, but twice in my life things have gone so far that they needed fixing. Thatcher overdid it when she broke the craft Unions, but before her Labour had let it all slide so badly. Now Cameron is poised to do it again with the public sector Unions. It’s going to be horrible and brutal. But my head knows that it’s necessary, even if my heart despairs.

Last time, the country was killing itself. Anybody who remembers the industrial relations of the 1970s knows how dysfunctional an economy becomes when the Trades Unions have too much power. This time, the widespread belief is that it’s been done to us. This is all the bankers’ fault, and ordinary people are suffering. We were OK as we were.

I don’t agree. I think we were already a long way down a disastrous road. The cuts that every party including Labour were committed to weren’t just needed as a balancing response to somebody else’s bad behaviour. They were and are needed to balance our own society.

These are the things I believe in. Every point could be an essay. Each one has a lifetime’s reasoning behind it, but here I just state them. These are my convictions and the principles I will always hold true to:

Productive industry is more vital than services. Craftsmen are more vital than intellectuals. North is more vital than south, and town more than country. Private sector is more vital than public. Science is more vital than art. Making things is more vital than thinking things. Young is more vital than old.

Welfare can only follow where enterprise has led. You can’t spend what you haven’t earned. The right to work, if any such thing can truly exist, is inextricably linked to the obligation to be useful. Good things grow. Things that stay still are dead: soon they become corrupt, and eventually they become nothing.

If you’re in it only for yourself, you’re hurting others. If you’re in it only to protect the lowest common denominator, you’re hurting others too. Nobody should be allowed to find shelter in mediocrity. Every organisation must strive to improve. The bigger the collective, the more certain it becomes that holding its ground is equivalent to falling back. Progress is not a dirty word, but an essential attribute of society. Society is not manifest in either State or Church, only in People. Reason is real and religion is illusory. Britain is Great. Until the world is ready to co-operate, we have no choice but to compete. Even if and when the World is One, indolence will still equate to doom. We are what we are through our industry. The more you’ve done, the more you deserve. The more you aspire to, the further you should be encouraged to go.

Honest toil is our lot, our privilege and it should be our redeeming pleasure.

It has to be David. If it turns out to be Ed, then the baggage he’s picked up will turn Labour into a pariah for a long time. I hope that Ed Miliband’s Labour Party would prove to be unelectable, though I fear it might not be. He has gathered to him all the people and attitudes we don’t need: the profession-stifling detritus of the Trades Union movement and the underachieving deadbeat whingers of a waning generation. I would be a party of the B-Ark, to invoke a little Douglas. There is a chance to purge all those useless ideas and baggage today. Conversely there is a risk of justifying them and giving them false and destructive currency.

Today, I might just change colour. We shall see.

I’m rushing this. All around me, the family is bustling, because we’re off to a friend’s wedding in a few minutes time. Weddings are bright new beginnings. I hope that in every way this turns out to be an auspicious day.


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 2

Taff Agent of kaos


milliband or milliband

i say Balls!!!!

smiley - bat


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 3

Rod

I can't (& won't, even) argue with your sentiment. For myself, my heart says socialism, my head says not. There's truth in the old saw: surprising if you're not socialist at 20, surprising if you still are at 40.

What I will take issue on is your para 8.
I'm reading your "vital" as 'important' except where noted:


>>Productive industry is more vital than services<<
. On a national scale, not any longer. We can't compete. (note the 'we' - I'm using it as of before I came here to NZ).
. On an international scale, surely it's a moral obligation to encourage those who want our lifestyle, to attain it - and then to pass on the baton. Japan, Taiwan & now China, Korea ... (and, more trade, less war)
. Services are what earns the pennies.
. What is actually needed is far & away more encouragement for our inventive & innovative gifts.

>>Craftsmen are more vital than intellectuals<<
. So, no more abstract, creative thinking? Anyway, a (real) craftsman is not just arms & legs, (s)he needs to think, too.

>>North is more vital than south, and town more than country<<
. North v South, I don't understand, unless you mean industrially - as it was in my day smiley - raisedeyebrow - see above.
. Town more than country - hydroponics then, & fully automated at that. We all live on pap?


>>Private sector is more vital than public<<
. Without the second, surely the first couldn't function other than locally.
Though, 'vital' in it's other sense does, er, make sense.


>>Science is more vital than art<<
Oh, what a poverty-stricken world to seek.


Making things is more vital than thinking things<<
. Try making a computer, a tv, a steam engine, a water wheel (without someone else's plans).

>>Young is more vital than old<< now that's just TOO close to home smiley - tongueincheek
Actually, I remember a time when the older, experienced people were put in corners with pens & paper, to make way for vitality. What happened to service & reliability then? The companies didn't care - they could employ two young 'uns for each old fogey.
In that time I was awarded half the pay rise because "you're over 40" but they wanted me to continue - and, on top, train those with more vitality. If that's the world you want then over to you. Your turn will come.

[puts me in mind of the old story - machine minder made redundant, machine goes wrong, man called back as consultant: "sixpence for kicking it, ten shillings for knowing where"].



I acknowledge the sentiment but not the attitude.
THIS is what we pay politicians for.
They have access to all the data, experience & advice that we don't.
It's what they use it for that matters.


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 4

Alfster

Not much of a choice we'll be getting a glottal-stopping toff which ever one we get - they glottal-stop worse than Bliar's put on intonations.

I think we should start calling whomever wins 'Are you David-or-Ed?' Milliband?'.


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 5

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

So it's Ed.

smiley - rose


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 6

Taff Agent of kaos


which one is he????

smiley - bat


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 7

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

The one at the front, I think...

http://factoidz.com/images/user/seventh_seal_14.jpg


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 8

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

Ed M was "my guy", someone who would be centrest at heart but lean a little more to the left. I think he can find away to build a coalition but still appeal to a crazy lefty like me.

I do find it funny that they (in the right wing press) are trying to portay him (or indeed any of the candidates) as somehow throwback to the Foot years.

Blimey the best you can say about Ed M is that he is from the Centre Right of the party but glances at the left.


FB


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 9

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

Oh and....



Trade Unions are democratic organisations in which the members cast their votes as individuals.

That is all.

FB


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 10

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

I thought Ed M's speech just then was fantastic. Glad I backed him.

FB


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 11

swl

I wonder if he got all of Harriet Harman's reputed seven votes or Dromey's four?

Strange version of democracy in there if you ask me smiley - winkeye


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 12

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

Yeah I had a four votes due to being members of several different affiliates.

As far as I can gather there is widespread acknowledgement within the movement of the need to change the voting system. Of course the PLP are not really that keen on a "one man, one vote" system

We shall see....

FB


Labour on the Brink (25th September 2010)

Post 13

swl

I think one reporter managed to rack up thirty votes by joining every society & group he could. Obviously not reflective of the ordinary member but it does leave the party open to criticism.


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