h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Winter Driving Guidelines - A984260
Author: broelan -ask me how YOU CAN HELP my friend! (don't forget the CHICAGO MEETat A595163) - U155058

this is an idea i got the other evening while driving home from work (in the snow, of course).

while i'll admit to having quite a few opinions on the matter, i also admit i don't know everything there is to know on the subject. i would appreciate help to make this a more well-rounded entry, as my only experience is local and other areas get different conditions in the winter.

this is also a little late for this year, but we have plenty of time to polish it for next year (or Australians )

I think I would separate the information into two different entries - driving in truly wintry conditions (snow and ice) and another entry on driving in rainy conditions.



Or else separate the entry itself into two different sections, one dealing exclusively with frozen conditions, the other with wet road conditions

The wet road conditions entry could deal with:

-the extreme slipperyness you encounter on roadways during the first rains after a drought (until the accumulated oils from the auto exhaust have been washed off the roads by the rains)
-heavy rainfall which pools on roads, i.e. don't drive into an area where flowing water has covered the road because it's impossible to tell how deep the water is and you could stall out your car in very shallow water
-hydroplaning
-simply slowing down because the road is wet and no matter what the tire manufacturer says and how good a driver you are, it will still take longer to stop the car.

For the frozen conditions, I'd add a little more information:

One thing I found out (much to my surprise) a week or so ago is that it was entirely possible to go into a skid between 10-15 mph, if you just happen to hit an icy curve, so I've decided that I don't think it's really possible to drive *too* slowly on icy roads.

Something important to remember when driving on ice/snow is to never make any sudden moves - no sudden starts or stops, because these lead to tire spinning in the first instance, and skidding in the second instance. Avenging Washcloth has told me that because they regularly have snowy winters in Northern Ohio, when the first snowfall of the season hits, she *always* drives to a deserted parking lot where she has plenty of room to maneuver, then intentionally puts the car into a skid (repeatedly), so that she can practice "steering into the skid" until it becomes an automatic response.

Sometimes the slipperiest time to be out there on the roads is right after the snow has started, when there's just a tiny bit of snow on the road. This can also be the slipperiest time to try to walk in the snow too, of course.

Then there's the issue of "black ice" where the road looks merely wet but because of the temperature is in reality a solid sheet of ice, so all roads that don't look perfectly dry should be assumed to be icy when the temperature is near or below freezing.

I hadn't even thought of the supplies you should have with you when traveling in frozen conditions - glad you included that. I read one time that it's good to have something edible on hand too - just in case you get stuck in the snow for a very long time (for instance if your car skids off the road, out of sight in a rugged area, and you're too injured to try to walk back to the road, but no one finds you for several days). A jar of nuts or box of crackers fills the bill.

Did you mention that you should not desert the car? (unless you're stuck in rising water, then get out while you still can unless you want to be on the 6 o'clock news, and possibly in the obit column)

Oh, and then there's dealing with the road salt buildup on your car , but that may be a subject for yet another entry. Hmm... wonder if there's one on rust?

Very good start on the entry, Broe!

thanks!
and thanks for your comments as well... i'm beginning to realize what a 'no-man's land' CWW and the flea market are (i've been trawling the listings today), so i appreciate that someone else has an interest.

i really intend for this just to deal with wintery snow and ice conditions. altho some aspects of driving in rainy and wet conditions are similar, i feel they are different enough (in scope, at least) to merit their own entry. if this one is successful i may take it on at a later time. i included limited 'wet road' information because frequently, in my area anyway, when it snows our roadways are wet more often than frozen so that is what my experience is with.

i understand your point about icy curves, and i can find someplace to add a bit about approaching curves (and hills as well). what i had in mind about driving too slowly was the people who drive 10 or 15 mph on major roads where other traffic is safely moving at 40 or more. this also happens frequently in my area, and is actually what inspired this project. i should put in some information about particular areas that merit a more cautious approach (like curves, bridges and overpasses).

i'll add munchies to the list of supplies, with a note to not keep them in the trunk - if you are incapacitated they will do you no good if you can't get to them.

the items that there isn't so much info on (like the black ice) i don't know much or anything about, which is why i thought collaborative workshop would be the way to go. unfortunately this seems to be a sorely underused part of the guide. had you been here before this entry? i've subscribed to the page... as i'm looking for help with my entry i figure i might be able to help others out as well.

when i make updates, which may be tomorrow or, short of time then perhaps next weekend, i'll add you to the list of researchers. thanks for your input, and if you think of anything else let me know!

Nope, never been here before, just followed your link.

Yes, we get wet places along with the ice and snow. This morning, all the rain and melting snow from the fields had frozen solid on the roadways in various places - it was a mess out there!

Oh, and the place where I skidded at 10-15 mph was on the high school campus - there's a right angle turn at a stop sign that has a slight incline after the turn - it was just enough to cause me and lots of other drivers to skid. Not a bad skid at that speed, but still...

As far as not driving too slowly in places where the traffic is moving along just fine at a faster speed - it really depends a lot on just how fast they're going, and what the road conditions are. I've seen cars and trucks go flying by on roads that were far too snowy/icy for the speeds they were maintaining. Eventually, one of them will try to swerve at the wrong time and somebody is going to end up in the ditch. But yeah, if the road is not that bad, and everyone else is moving at a reasonable speed, driving excessively slow is pointless. Of course if a person has no choice but to drive somewhere when the roads are bad and they have no experience at it, better to drive extremely slowly rather than try to keep up with the rest of the traffic when they don't know how to drive under those conditions.

Anyhow, anything you want more elaboration on that I mentioned, just say so.... oh yeah... black ice....

Black ice occurs when on blacktop (dark) pavement the melted snow/ice or freezing rain freezes on the roadway. When this pavement is wet, it looks blacker than usual - you can tell the difference between wet and dry that way. Only thing is, when the wet roadway freezes, whether from freezing rain or from melted snow or ice, it's still black. It looks like it's only wet, and therefore only moderately slippery. But in reality, it's a skating rink. The problem comes when people try to drive on it like it's only wet and then find out that it's actually ice - much more slick and dangerous.

i've made a few updates (and added you to the researcher list ), if you have the time take another gander and see what you think.

I'm still a little confused by the switching back and forth from snow to icy to wet driving conditions, without having each driving condition under a different header.

Since you added me to the researcher list, I see my name as the writer for some reason - does that mean I could go in and make some changes and you could then read it and see what you think, then we could really work on it together, each of us making changes, without either of us having to be individually completely responsible for all the changes to it?

you can't make changes unless you have an edit button on the page when you're viewing it. i don't know if i've been listed as a contributor on a non-edited entry, so i'm not sure if you should have one or not, but i think since i created the entry i have to edit it. if you have copy suggestions tho, you could email them to me if you like . (of course, if you do have an edit button, please make any changes you like!)

i had a few more changes made yesterday, i added some links, but the site wouldn't load for me at all by the time i had finished so i'll have to try again today. other changes will probably be made next week, as i'm going to be away from work and rather busy until next monday. so if you send me suggestions but don't see them incorporated right away please don't think i'm ignoring you!

i'll take another look at it and see if i can't clarify the flow somewhat and make distinctions clearer. thanks again for all your help!

i've just had a thought. what about a paragraph or so at the beginning of the entry describing the types of winter conditions that can exist and how they change. for instance: when snow first starts to fall roads may become wet before they ice over due to the friction of constant traffic on them. less travelled roads will ice over more quickly, and most roads will freeze in the overnight hours. sleet and freezing rain, however will freeze on contact if surfaces have not been previously treated. if you are unsure of the condition of the road you are travelling on it's far better to err on the side of caution and assume everything is ice.

i haven't read through the whole thing yet, but i did manage to update with the links. i'll come back to it

I did check - my name is entered as writer (?) and yours as editor. I guess the button I saw yesterday was the remove my name button. Which of course I really don't want to do.

I don't have time to make any suggestions right now - but yeah, mentioning that conditions can change rapidly is good. Obviously it won't go into the edited guide this winter, which means we have months and months to work on it - maybe we can get input from some others who have had experience in even more severe winter driving conditions by that time.

Great Idea for an entry and a collaborative topic as well !!
With that I will jump right in.

With the blanket I would consider making a towel a separate item. I carry a towel in my trunk all year. Its good for wiping of the condensation from the inside of the windows when my defroster is not working to well and for cleaning my hands off when I have had to do some work like changing the tire. You may also want to like to the towel entry A138232

For the first aid kit, they also make instant heat packs for sore muscles but can be good keeping your hands warm. I have always found a film canister perfect for keeping change in especially in places where it can easily get lost, like you locker or glove compartment.

For food you may want to consider Meals Ready to Eat (MREs), theses are prepackaged meals the US army uses, I do not know what the British compliment to these are but I am sure there is one. You can find MREs at army surplus stores, they usually go fro a few bucks each. What makes them good for this purpose is that they keep for a long time, come complete with the utensils you need, and there are hot meals, like spaghetti, which only require adding water to cook them. (they also have instructions printed on them) I don't carry these in my car but if you are worried about getting stuck and being hungry a good meal may help you calm down.

If you are worried about your batteries in your flashlight or just know you are to lazy to check them there are crank flashlights which only require cranking every so often to keep them working

If your car is warm enough that you don't regularly ware gloves while driving, unlike my car, you should keep gloves in your ummm. . . glove compartment . Well thats what its there for. You will want them in the car and the the trunk so you can put them on before you go out.

Other things to have with you may be a knife and a lighter. I always have these in my book bag, cuz you knows when some aliens my pick you up and drop you off in the woods I can't give you specific examples but they are useful and versatile.

I have never used it but the do make de-icing formulas to put in your wiper fluid to help get the ice of the windshield.

You may want to consider moving the part about practicing sliding down to the breaking section. I to go out in an empty lot and do this not only is it good practice but its good fun. Maybe its something about Ohio.

The explanation on black ice seamed a little confusing. Black ice is actual clear ice as opposed to frosted ice, the black of course comes from the road. Clear ice occurs from a slow freezing, like when it warms up during the day melting the snow then slowly cools down over the night consequently if you want to be fancy and make clear ice cubes boil your water first as it will take longer for it to cool.

One dangerous time is large amounts of hail, it can be worse that ice because not only is it slippery but it slides with you. I got caught in this once and where the road was clear the traction was normal but where it was covered it was very easy to slide.

Chains may be required in some areas but they are also illegal in others so they may want to check local laws. The reason they are illegal is that they can tare up the road.

If there are other people around you may be able to bounce or push down on the car if you cant rock it. Of course for RWD they need to be in the back and for FWD in the front.

When you have finally accepted that you cant get your car out and you are stuck you need to turn off your car. You may not have your heater but at least you wont die of CO2. If you really cant stay warm you can turn the car and heater on to warm up and then turn it off again but do not just let it run.

Somewhere you should remind people to turn on there emergency lights.

And finally the best thing to do in any situation is STAY CALM you can think of better ways to get out of the situation if you have a clear head.

Your friendly neigborhood

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but the black ice also occurs when you have freezing rain. The roadway freezes before the grass and trees, so when the rain falls, it freezes immediately on the road.

It's peculiar to write about these things in summer weather, of course...

Yea, I am working right now in a room that is very cold. I think that help jog my memory.

sorry!! i did see your comments when you posted, agent x, i've only just recently had the time to put some more work in on this.

thanks so much for your comments! i've incorporated a lot of what you had to offer. here are some of the changes i've made:

i added some bits about heat packs, the film cannister, mre's (which taste awful by the way, have you ever tried one?), gloves, emergency flashers, and driving on hail.

i removed the footnote about the towel and made it part of the section title with a link to the towel entry.

i reworked the bit about black ice, see if it makes more sense now. and i mentioned that chains are illegal in some areas, but changed the section that it was in to a more general one on tires with a mention about deflating them.

i wanted to get some more information about some other things you mentioned -- the flashlight and the washer fluid. can you get some more information on the crank flashlights? i've never heard of these and it would have been a lifesaver on countless scouting camp trips! and on the winshield washer fluid, i know they make solutions that won't freeze so that you can use it when the other kinds would be frozen, but i didn't know they made de-icing solutions too... or are they the same thing? de-icing solution would be a wonder!! are you maybe confusing non-freezing washer fluid with lock de-icer?

i decided not to move the bit about practicing sliding, i think it fits well where it is.

OH-- and of course, i've added you to the researchers list!

would anyone like to take another look?

I didn't read the whole thing again - just skipped to the part about black ice. It doesn't necessarily freeze slowly.


There's two common ways black ice happens: One is for the air temperature to be above freezing, while the ground is still frozen. Normally, what happens in this case is that the precipitation is frozen until just a few hundred feet before it reaches the ground. On the edge of the freezing temperature line, this is what happens - there will be a layer of air that is warmer nearer the ground, causing sleet or snow to thaw before hitting the ground. Then it freezes on the ground - or roadway. The freezing is nearly immediate - think about how your damp fingers will stick to a frozen ice cube tray. As it continues to rain more and more, the ice builds up, although it may not become thick - or can be a couple of inches thick if this particular set of warmer air/frozen ground continues for a long time while it's "precipitating".

The other most common way for it to form is from melted snow or ice that re-freezes, usually overnight, on the road. This can also happen if there's a water pipe that breaks or some other source of water that freezes on the road. I'm sure that if a truck carrying for instance soda overturned and spilled it's colas and orange drinks all over the road, that could freeze too.



Oh, another note: Bridges will freeze before the road does, because the cold air surrounds them (as opposed to the road, which only has frozen air from *above* it), which means that even if the precipitation is not freezing on the road you're driving on, but the temperature is hovering around freezing, the bridges could very well be frozen, not merely wet, so worthy of extra caution.

I realise this may be seen as pedantry above and beyond the call of duty, but winters do not necessarily bring ice and snow, or even rain:

In Botswana for example, it's bone dry in winter, and not unpleasantly mild. It rains in the hot summer months. Driving in winter is a breeze.

In Bahrain, it does rain in the winter, but with an aggreagte rainfall of next to nothing. The key hazard is the wet surface on a year's worth of oily rubbery discharge, which makes the roads a little slippy. But you certainly don't need provisions like blankets and all.

I don't intend for you to reduce the quality or potential of this entry to advise drivers in adverse driving conditions, but merely to point out that winter ain't always bleak.

Fair?

Trout

Oh. I respectfully beg your pardon ...

<>

T

certainly! thanks for reading it!

lady s, i've re-worded the sentence on black ice, is this better? 'Black ice occurs on blacktopped or darkly surfaced roads when water freezes but remains clear (instead of becoming frosted).'

also, you'll see that the information about bridges and overpasses had already been included... just below the bit about black ice, in the first paragraph under the heading 'Dangerous Places'.

i was thinking of going over to <./>Askh2g2</.> to see if i could find anyone who lives in a mountain region or snowier area. i'd like to make sure we haven't included any misinformation on things i've merely speculated about.

i really like the way this is shaping up, and i'm very thankful for everyone's help!

Yes, that sounds better about the black ice... I'm trying to recall if there's anything else that should be said about it, but my mind is drawing a blank right now.

Sorry about missing the part about bridges freezing before roads - I really should have re-read the entry in it's entirety

Good idea about posting a query in Askh2g2 - I've never lived in an extremely mountainous or consistently snowy area... although from what I understand, some places that get a lot of snow (like Colorado, or even western Pa) have more than adequate snow removal equipment to keep the roads reasonably clear.


Considering the fact that MT pointed out that not all areas of the world get snow or ice during the winter months, and some don't even get rain, perhaps it would be a good idea to reword the title of this somehow to reflect that it has mainly to do with cold weather driving precautions, including those associated with various types of precipitation.... That would make a ridiculously long and convoluted title though.

Ideas, anyone?

Driving in Cold Weather??

Sorry I have not been around but I got my wisdom teeth pulled this weekend
I will re-read the article soon but I have a lot of work to catch up on.

A candle and water proof matches are generally a good idea as the candle provides a good deal of warmth (if combined with one of the matches).

Being as you have already provided yourself with the shelter of a motor vehicle, it is unlikely that you will want to go out in the snow to construct yourself a snow-shelter. Footnote 7 probably is not a good suggestion.

You might want to look at my entry on "Getting around in Canada in the Winter" A946820 for a precis of a quarter century of winter driving in the all conditions.