h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: A Crash Course To Welsh - A952319
Author: Fish (if thats allowed?) - U216460

"Hi and Hello There!" to everybody who considers reading this...

Here is a small crash course to Welsh:
Pysgodyn a Sglodion - Fish and Chips
Rydw'i Yn hoffi Pysgodyn a Sglodion - I like Fish And Chips

Hwylio - Sailing
Te - Tea
Gee Cefel Bach - Gee up little pony
Penpoeth yn iawn? - Everything alright?
Mae'r BBC yn Anghawyr - The BBC is wrong
Rydw i'n... - I am ...
Gwyddoniaeth - Science
ETC ETC ETC - etc etc etc

WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER ABOUT WALES, IS... It's widely used in Wales, and even as far abroad as China. It has taken words from other languages such as English, Saxon, Latin and many, many more just the same as English has. However, in one form or another, Welsh is the OLDEST language in Europe.

You now have the translations next to the foreign language, which isn't actually foreign - NOTE:- IN THE HOUSE RULES, YOU ACTUALLY SAID "FOREIGN LANGUAGES MAY BE REMOVED" - WELSH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG (I'M NOT), IS NOT A FOREIGN LANGUAGE!! IT HAS BEEN AROUND A LOT LONGER THAN ENGLISH, AND IS EVEN A BRITISH LANGUAGE! AND IT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF THE ENGLISH OPPRESSION OF THE WELSH THAT WE DO NOT ALL SPEAK WELSH AS OUR FIRST LANGUAGE!

Before we go any further, could I ask you... Is this a genuine attempt to get an entry on the Welsh language into the edited guide, or is it a test of the sites rules and regulations on language content...

The reason I'm asking, is not because I disagree with your opinion that Welsh should be allowed on the BBC but rather that the entry itself might well need quite a bit of polishing before being selected for the edited guide and it would be best to clarify which direction this thread is heading in before we start



Whisky

Both the reasons you suggested are true. It is a semi test of rules, and it is also an attempt to put a Welsh entry on the guide. I wasn't entirely sure how to finish it, and any comments/guidance that you can give me would be recieved gratefully. I'm sorry if i went on a "soap Box" as i have often been told i do when confronting issues which concern me.

Ok, no problem... in that case, lets try and polish this one so it'll stand up as a test case - as the entry stands at the moment it probably won't be picked, regardless of the language. But if you're willing to put up with us picking it to pieces to help improve things...

Here goes...

What's the possibility of adding something on the history of the language, its origins, etc..

A prononciation guide would be quite useful too... just how do you say

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch anyway?

Then, a brief comparison with other celtic languages (Irish, Scottish, etc (which would give you the chance to compare welsh words with their scottish/irish equivalents)

and then if you added a section on who speaks Welsh now, is it taught in schools, what percentage of the population of wales speak welsh, what effect has the English language had on Welsh (Lots of European languages have 'integrated' english vocabulary into their everyday use)

I hope this doesn't frighten you off, but it's just what I'd hope for in 'my version' of a perfect guide entry on the Welsh language...

Possible?

whisky

It's possibly possible. However, the pronounciation of "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch" is something WAY beyond my abilities! You don't happen to be Welsh by any chance? I have to say that my knowledge of Welsh is minimal, but I try my hardest, and this entry started when i wanted to call myself Pysgodyn a Sglodion (fish and Chips) and the BBC wouldnt let me!

Heck no I'm not welsh... I just did a search on google for "*gogogoch" and cut and pasted the result

You might find quite a bit of the information you need however on the BBCs welsh website... http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/

It would be a good place to start anyway

*waves at Fish*

Oh, I know this one...

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Is LlanPG

Liam.

Hi,

I too was expecting much more than just a few random phrases.

Maybe you can clarify for us "foreigners" the difference or relationships between Gaelic, Celtic and Welsh.

Is it true you don't have a word for yes? (You say I am, it did, there are, etc. for confirmation.)

What about "mutations" I think they are called? (cadair vs. y gadair)

I tried to learn Welsh when I was visiting frequently to go climbing there. Didn't progress very far.

Awu

If they idn't let you have "Pysgodyn a Sglodion", how come they allowed "Ausnahmsweise wie üblich"?

I asked my self the same question.

A long time ago, someone posted and mentioned my fill nick in the text (like you just did) and the posting got removed until it was cleared up.

So, what about this entry???
Awu

I do recall that the Welsh, Breton, and Cumbrian shepherd's count for 5 are recognisably the same at root. I'm not sure if you can claim Welsh is older than Breton, Cornish etc - they are all Q Celtic languages, aren't they? The old Pictish language seems to have been very closely related too.
The first step, in my opinion, might be to reduce the capitalisation, and perhaps include words that us foriegners might need when in Wales - like Ysbyty, Canolfan, Nofio etc?

a brief history of the Indo-European languages:

a long time ago, a bunch of people somewhere in Eurasia spoke a language scholars now call Proto-Indo-European. As time passed, these people moved off and split up and variously reorganized themselves. There language also split up and moved off and variously reorganized itself. The original Indo-European language became the parent and grandparent of a whole lot of modern languages. Here's an incomplete geneology:

Indo-European begat Sanskrit and Latin and Greek and Proto-Germanic and Proto-Celtic. Sanskrit begat Hindi and a whole lot of other languages of the Indian Subcontinent. Latin begat French and Italian and Spanish and Romanian. Proto-Germanic begat Dutch and Norwegian and Icelandic and Swedish and German and English. Proto-Celtic begat Breton and Cornish and Gaelic (Irish, Scottish, and Cape Breton) and Welsh and, probably, Pictish.

I've really oversimplified this and left out a lot of languages, but, in a nutshell, Welsh is a Celtic language which is more closely related to Breton and Cornish and (probably) Pictish, than it is to any of the Gaelics, but more closely related to the Gaelics than it is to English or French, and totally unrelated to Finnish, Hungarian, or Sumerian (the last mentioned is for Gilgamesh).

I hope that's as clear as mud.

anhaga

I just re-read the entry and I must say, it's not really accurate to suggest that Welsh is older than English: At the end of the 5th century, when the Romans left the British on their own, the British didn't speak Welsh. Some of the British spoke a language that later became what we now call Welsh. By the same measure, when the so-called Angles, Saxons and Jutes waltzed into Britain at the same end of the same century, they didn't speak English. They spoke a bunch of closely related languages that eventually became what we now call English. So, who's first? Natural languages do not have birthdates; a statement of comparative age of living natural languages arbitrary. Now, if we talk about artificial languages like Esparanto or dead languages like Sumerian we're standing on firmer ground. English and Welsh are both older than Esparanto and younger than Sumerian.

I also agree that the capitalization has to go.

anhaga

P. S. As I posted somewhere else around here, Welsh is the Anglo-Saxon word for "slave". Is a title change in order?

You're all very patient, but it looks like someone leapt on a soapbox here, and the found it was a soap bubble. Indeed it seems that the community knowns more of Welsh and and Celtic languages than the poster.

I know nothing about either, but a little bit about people.

I'm out of here - Yakki-dah bach.

If McKay feels that my two postings about the Welsh language were a soap box rant, I'm sorry. I intended to provide information in response to the queries of other posters. Again, disregard my above posts and, if you wish, consult these exelent Guide entries: A278679, A287994.

anhaga

Good Grief No - I was referring to the original posting - not your excellent and helpful replies.

I apologise if I led you to believe I was referring to you.

Adds my voice to the chorus of 'This entry is a bit on the thin side and would need a lot more information and a pronounciation guide if it is to make it to Edited Guide status.

Sorry too, McKay:

I was still asleep when I read the latest posts and wasn't thinking straight.

anhaga

Thank you all for your very helpful, if not slightly bazar comments. If You would agree, I would like to use some of the information given here (e.g. the brief history to Welsh) to make my entry a near perfect one? And anyone with any other useful comments could perhaps ask me for my Email address and then send it to that for me as i am spending WAY too much time on the net at the moment!

I have to admit to whoever said it, I did start off by jumping on my soap box, and would like to apologize to anyone in the least bit offended you big bunch of soppy wet 's.

I wouldn't worry about it fish...

That's what peer review is for, so people can give you ideas on how to improve your work all the information in this thread is there for you to use... Take your time, but just drop a note in here when and if you get the chance to update things so we can have another look...

Best of luck

Whisky