A Conversation for Islam
Peer Review: A918687 - Islam
Jaez Started conversation Jan 6, 2003
Entry: Islam - A918687
Author: Jaez - U212912
I'm hoping this will be good enough as a first entry into the h2g2 database as an introduction to Islam. If I've left anything out that should be mentioned, I'd be grateful for comments. Thanks, Jaez
A918687 - Islam
Gubernatrix Posted Jan 6, 2003
Hi Jaez,
This is a great entry - excellent work for a first time!
I am sure that there are many things that could be included, but my feeling is that this is the right length for an entry, and works very well as an overview of the main aspects of Islam.
Perhaps you could include more of the story of the Prophet Mohammad and how he came to found the religion. Also, you don't say anything about the different branches of Islam. Without going into excessive detail, it might be worth talking a bit about the differences between Sunni and Shia.
Also, I am wondering whether the title should be a little bit more specific, such as 'An Introduction to Islam' or 'Overview of Islam' or similar. Dunno though, what do other people think?
I only have one stylistic comment: you should make use of the tag in order to break up your text - for example, a subheader called 'The Five Pillars of Islam' etc.
However, this is a well-written entry and gets my vote for the EG!
Gubernatrix
A918687 - Islam
Trout Montague Posted Jan 7, 2003
I have it on good authority that the herein definition of Zakat ...
" One tenth of the income of every muslim who earns is given to the welfare of the poor and needy in society ..."
is not wholly correct.
Thus ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/customs/islam_customs53.shtml
... perhaps provides a more factually correct definition.
Here is what I am told ...
2.5% for cash, gold and silver
10% for crops obtained from land without expenditure, e.g. harvesting dates
5% on crops if you need to input, e.g., cultivating rice
I have also heard it said that the amount should not be a fixed % of gross income, but should be a % of the balance left after fulfilling one's own needs.
Further to some extent I agree with the previous poster that the title is perhaps too all-encompassing, and that a more humble title ...
"An Introduction to the Five Fundamental Tenets of Islam" may be better.
Good Luck.
DMT
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 7, 2003
Assalamu alaikum.
I agree with what the others have said about the title as it is more a introduction to the religion. As a introduction it is better than most I have seen people right. Well done.
I would just like to say though that when fasting in ramadam we (muslims) do not eat, drink, smoke, have intercourse during the light of day. We are allowed to eat from dusk till dawn.
Normally we break fast straight after mahgrib prayer as mahgrib is done at sun set.
Allah hafiz
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Jaez Posted Jan 7, 2003
thank you, I've tried to include as many of the suggestions as possible, and expand the entry. I'll try to add more soon. Please could you re read it and let me know what you think?
Many thanks.
Jaez
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 7, 2003
Yeah its better now but still needs a little added to it maybe(I know how you feel with the non stop suggestions - but helpfull though). To start with maybe you could mention the Hadith which the Sunni and Hanafi etc muslims follow as well. Which is esentially aload of information of how to act and behave and increase your faith. The Hadith were written about the things prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did or said which many people heard and wrote down. I'm sure you know about the Hadith so I don't think I need to go in to much detail on it.
Jihad means struggle as you said but it is used to describe all struggle. A student performs jihad to get his Degree for example. Jihad is a very wide meaning but in its proper sense it is doing something for the benefit of Allah that may not be easy for you. For example if Me and my friend was to get married but her farther said no because I am white then Islamically she should still marry me but she and I would Jihad against him to try and show him sense. If her farther was persistant then she could go against his word as marriage in Islam is half your religion and if your farther is stoping you from fullfilling that role with no good reason to follow what he tells you would mean you are not fullfilling your role in Islam. Thats another example.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Gubernatrix Posted Jan 9, 2003
>>>Women and Men are equal in Islam.
Could you explain what this means? Equal in what way?
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 9, 2003
In Islam the woman has just as many rights as the man. The man only has a edge over women when decision making as in Islam the Husband provides for all the family so if there is a family decision to be made he has the last word but he has to listen and consider what the wife has to say. Other than this they are both equal and have equal rites. Christianity puts the blame of Adam eating from the forbidden tree on Eve's head and says that women are all born sinners and men are to but not as much, in Islam Neither man or woman is born a sinner they are all burn with no sins. Islam puts the responcability of Adam eating from the tree of knowledge as a mistake they both made, neither one is to blame more than the other. Islam also believes it was not a tree of knowledge as knowledge is not a bad thing. Woman and men have a choice of who they will marry and any money the woman may have or earns is hers and the husband has no control on what she does with it as long as she is not spending it on Harim things.There is a little about women and Islam in my entry is Islam a religion of destruction. I would suggest if you want to find out more you couldd go to www.islam.com or other Islamic sites.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman Posted Jan 9, 2003
Please put something in about the difference between Shi'ite and Sunni muslims (i.e. whether they subscribe to ijtihad). I think that there are a lot of people who know of these two creeds but not about them.
A918687 - Islam
Jaez Posted Jan 10, 2003
It means pretty much what it says, in Islam both genders are equal, in other words, one is not thought of more highly or less highly than the other. Different cultural values are often ascribed to the roles which most commonly arise out of Islamic families, for example, the notion of the 'man' as a breadwinner, while a comforting myth was also for a long time a symbol of women's repressiong in the West, and so understandably when this role emerges in Islam, it is seen negatively. To be clear, there is no injunction preventing a either party from getting a job and earning income for the family, there are women lawyers, doctors, and women prime ministers are elected more often in Islamic countries than in other countries. Two notable example of Islamic countries where women have risen to positions of complete power are Turkey, and Pakistan. This being said, the Quran specifies that someone must take responsibility for the income of the family by default, and in the case of Islam this is the father.
Please Note: This is a responsibility, not a right.
As a religion, Islam is the most egalitarian of the three main monotheistic faiths in the world, there is no sense of a patriarchy, and no formal political or priestly hierarchy to implicitly form one. Islam quite clearly defines and limits the roles of the government, and also the holy men, in order to protect the freedoms of the individual.
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 10, 2003
Exactly. Nicley said. Maybe you should include some of it in to your entry.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Jaez Posted Jan 10, 2003
To be honest, I'm not sure it's a good idea. :/ The differences between Sunni and Shia are mostly political, cultural, and historical - *not* religious. Often the notion that they are a different sect is misleading, giving the impression that they form a different 'group' separate from the rest. I know personally that Sunni's if you wish to call them that are welcome in all 'Shia' mosques and feel happy to worship there, the same is true the other way. These distinctions are simply not drawn by Muslims, more often by people outside Islam, or from the West who find it easier to understand Islam by treating it as a non-religious phenomenon, and thus missing the point.
As to itjihad, in Islam there are strict guidelines laid down which apply to all muslims, both in the Quran and the Hadith, not to mention numerous scholars who all say that this faculty of muslims is to be used sparingly and carefully, very much like fiqh. The essence of Islam is that people are essentially good, but that like all reasoning beings, are capable of making mistakes, and thus anything that takes us away from Allah, from purity and integrity in our lives, cannot be followed as itjihad. Again the scope is quite narrow, and most muslims find sufficient guidance in the considerate and comprehensive body of literature that surrounds Islam. It is often widened outside of Islam to try and discover ambiguities with which to test the bewildered and confused muslim. I trust in my God, my reason, and my fellow muslim. Am I not right?
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 10, 2003
Yeap. Its good to have more Muslims on the site. Inshallah we will be able to educate more people with the knowledge of what Islam is really like.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Gubernatrix Posted Jan 10, 2003
I understand what you are both saying. The reason I asked is that Islam is often used to justify oppression and cruel treatment of women - for example, the recent case in Nigeria where a woman was condemned to be stoned to death for adultery by an Islamic court, where the man (the partner in crime) received no punishment. Is this part of Islamic law?
Why is it that some muslim women are made to wear the full hejab (I hope I have got the term correct) whereas the man can wear whatever he wants? Why are some muslim women obliged to walk behind their husbands on the street? Why are some muslim women not allowed to sit beside a man in public unless he is a close relative?
Are these things to do with Islam as you understand it, or are they simply social conventions, or differences in the way Islam is interpreted in different communities?
(By the way, I'm not implying that these issues are confined to Islam - many crazy things are said about Christianity, and all sorts of behaviour is claimed to be prescribed by the Bible, especially with regard to women and homosexuals. Perhaps its a case of all bigots using religion to further their own purposes).
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 10, 2003
OK I will rreply in a bit at the mo I'm ansewering a thousand points some one made on another entry of mine.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
GTBacchus Posted Jan 10, 2003
Hello.
I have one suggestion, right at the beggining of your entry, which looks very good, by the way. When you first mention "Mohammed (swt)", there's that (swt) after his name... could you add a footnote or something explaining what that means? Also, you may want to link to the Edited Entry on the Prophet Mohammed, at A311077.
GTB
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 10, 2003
Adultery is considered a sin in all religions. The Bible decrees the death sentence for both the adulterer and the adulteress (Lev. 20:10) . Islam also equally punishes both the adulterer and the adulteress (Quran 24:2). However, the Quranic definition of adultery is very different from the Biblical definition. Adultery, according to the Quran, is the involvement of a married man or a married woman in an extramarital affair. The Bible only considers the extramarital affair of a married woman as adultery (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22, Proverbs 6:20-7:27).
"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel" (Deut. 22:22).
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Lev. 20:10).
According to the Biblical definition, if a married man sleeps with an unmarried woman, this is not considered a crime at all. The married man who has extramarital affairs with unmarried women is not an adulterer and the unmarried women involved with him are not adulteresses. The crime of adultery is committed only when a man, whether married or single, sleeps with a married woman. In this case the man is considered adulterer, even if he is not married, and the woman is considered adulteress. In short, adultery is any illicit sexual intercourse involving a married woman. The extramarital affair of a married man is not per se a crime in the Bible. Why is the dual moral standard? According to Encyclopaedia Judaica, the wife was considered to be the husband's possession and adultery constituted a violation of the husband's exclusive right to her; the wife as the husband's possession had no such right to him. That is, if a man had sexual intercourse with a married woman, he would be violating the property of another man and, thus, he should be punished.
The Quran, on the other hand, never considers any woman to be the possession of any man. The Quran eloquently describes the relationship between the spouses by saying:
" And among His signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them and He has put love and mercy between your hearts: verily in that are signs for those who reflect" (Quran 30:21).
This is the Quranic conception of marriage: love, mercy, and tranquillity, not possession and double standards.
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."
(24:2 Quran).
Noble Verse 24:2 above clearly talks about the woman and the man both committing adultery together. It is talking about two different genders committing adultery. The English translation is not accurate because it said "guilty of adultery or fornication...". The Noble Verse in Arabic says "Al-zaniyatu wa al-zanee....", which means the "The woman and the man who are guilty of act of illegal sexual intercourse..." The act of illegal sexual intercourse is general, and can be applied to both groups of married and single people.
There are however Sayings of our Prophet peace be upon him that order the stoning to death those who are married and commit adultery:
Narrated Ash-Shaibani: "I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, 'The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam (stoning to death),' I asked, 'Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur? (Noble Verse 24:2)' He replied, 'I do not know.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Punishment of Disbelievers at War with Allah and His Apostle, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 824)"
So according to the narration, no one is certain on when 24:2 of the Quran was revealed. This should be more than enough for us to apply the punishment in the Noble Verse for all cases of adultery; for single and married people.
'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: "Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.' (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 17, The Book Pertaining to Punishments Prescribed by Islam (Kitab Al-Hudud), Number 4191)
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid: "Two men had a dispute in the presence of Allah's Apostle. One of them said, "Judge us according to Allah's Laws." The other who was more wise said, "Yes, Allah's Apostle, judge us according to Allah's Laws and allow me to speak (first)" The Prophet said to him, 'Speak " He said, "My son was a laborer for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and the people told me that my son should be stoned to death, but I have given one-hundred sheep and a slave girl as a ransom (expiation) for my son's sin. Then I asked the religious learned people (about It), and they told me that my son should he flogged one-hundred stripes and should be exiled for one year, and only the wife of this man should be stoned to death " Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to Allah's Laws: O man, as for your sheep and slave girl, they are to be returned to you." Then the Prophet had the man's son flogged one hundred stripes and exiled for one year, and ordered Unais Al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man, and if she confessed, stone her to death. She confessed and was stoned to death. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Punishment of Disbelievers at War with Allah and His Apostle, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 826)"
Basically those who are married are stoned to death and those who are not are whipped 100 times. What you have to remember is that in christanity if you divorce and marry some one else you are commiting adultery but only the woman is punished. Christanity according to the bible should stone to death the man and woman if they are married and only the woman if the man is married. Which is wrong in Islam it is the same punishment rether you are male or female.
I hope that helps a little.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Rik Bailey Posted Jan 10, 2003
Oh and dealing with the Hijab, There is much debate on rether it is Islamic law to cover your heads, all I have found so far is that you should through your garmets over your body. I have not found a quranic verse or hadith that says a woman has to wear a Hijab on her head though she has to in prayer. As for the cloths...
Well People say that the whole Burqa thinq is degrading the woman but if it was that degrading then why are most converts women?
Well lets look at it this way if you see a woman who is completly covered and you can not see if she is fat or thin or anything like that, are you going to stare lustfully at her, are you going to go over to her and try to bed her, are you going to treat her any differently from a male. The answer in most cases is no. The woman has no sexual presence on men. Islam reconises that men have stronger urges for sex than women so by having women cover them selves the sexual urges can be kept at bay. In this country woman can wear what they like and it will have no effect on her life? If that is the case then why is it when women are raped they are the first to be put on the stand and one of the first questions is what were you wearing?.
Another point how many women wearing Burqas are are raped each year compared to the norm of to day. Most convert women actually say how happy they are when they are completely covered as men stop treating them as some thing they can have sex with and treat them like human beings. Does the wearing of Islamic clothing restrict the woman in any way no it does not. It does not stop her living her life, having a job or going out and thing like that. The wearing of these cloths are for her safty and pertection. Islam belives that the eyescan commit adultery just like the body given the desire behind them.
As for men, they should also keep them selfs covered up. I will go in to more detail about the whole subject later. Or even better I will write a guide entry on it.
Adib
A918687 - Islam
Jaez Posted Jan 10, 2003
I understand what you are both saying. The reason I asked is that Islam is often used to justify oppression and cruel treatment of women - for example, the recent case in Nigeria where a woman was condemned to be stoned to death for adultery by an Islamic court, where the man (the partner in crime) received no punishment. Is this part of Islamic law?
These are quite important questions, which come up often in conversations about Islam, so I'll try to deal with them here as best as I can:
"Why is it that some muslim women are made to wear the full hejab (I hope I have got the term correct) whereas the man can wear whatever he wants?"
This isn't true. There are basic requirements for modesty of dress for both genders, and these are broadly interpreted within the context of local culture to form the dress. In the UK, muslim women rarely if ever wear the hejab (though more are choosing to do so nowadays as it frees them from leering men), while in Turkey women wear more modest dress than in the UK, but by no means is the entire female population clad from head to toe. In cultures where there is a strong legacy from pre-islamic times, the subjugation of women is often continued by imposing stricter dress codes than are necessary, and you find this in places like Afghanistan.
As for muslim men, they are bound just as strictly to the codes of modesty, but due to anatomical differences between the genders, men don't have to cover their breast, and thus are bound only to cover their groin. This is what usually leads to the differences in dress, much like in the rest of the world. Nor does it prevent fashion and elegance, as anyone who's seen Pakistani dresses will attest to, they are lavish, beautiful, elegant, without being provocative. Style with sincerity, the spirit of Islam.
"Why are some muslim women obliged to walk behind their husbands on the street?"
Again this isn't true. In some countries it's a tradition, but it isn't an Islamic one. The only thing I can think off is that in a dangerous country a man may scout a few steps ahead for the safety of the woman, but I don't see how this would be of any use in a town or a city.
"Why are some muslim women not allowed to sit beside a man in public unless he is a close relative?"
Family structure is very important in Islam, and dating is almost unheard of. This is usually done to protect the girl's reputation, and is often a chore for the boy concerned (usually a brother). Nevertheless, this is only important in social situations, until the girl is married, at which point she is much more free. In the business world however, both genders are free to work together on a professional basis. You don't see young single female doctors being escorted by their brothers in to do surgery.
"Are these things to do with Islam as you understand it, or are they simply social conventions, or differences in the way Islam is interpreted in different communities?"
Social conventions usually, or misinterpretations of Islam, most people grow out of them fairly quickly, usually by age 13 within muslim cultures. Women are usually treated with more consideration and respect than in other cultures, so the whole 'feminist' issue doesn't even arise.
"(By the way, I'm not implying that these issues are confined to Islam - many crazy things are said about Christianity, and all sorts of behaviour is claimed to be prescribed by the Bible, especially with regard to women and homosexuals. Perhaps its a case of all bigots using religion to further their own purposes)."
Bigots rarely ever use true religion for anything. It is a source of spiritual wonder and delight that is denied them, which is why they are often so easy to spot, they look uncomfortable when forced to let go of themselves and believe in something bigger, like God.
A918687 - Islam
Gubernatrix Posted Jan 10, 2003
Thanks for your replies on this, guys. Very interesting!
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Peer Review: A918687 - Islam
- 1: Jaez (Jan 6, 2003)
- 2: Gubernatrix (Jan 6, 2003)
- 3: Trout Montague (Jan 7, 2003)
- 4: Rik Bailey (Jan 7, 2003)
- 5: Jaez (Jan 7, 2003)
- 6: Rik Bailey (Jan 7, 2003)
- 7: Gubernatrix (Jan 9, 2003)
- 8: Rik Bailey (Jan 9, 2003)
- 9: Felonious Monk - h2g2s very own Bogeyman (Jan 9, 2003)
- 10: Jaez (Jan 10, 2003)
- 11: Rik Bailey (Jan 10, 2003)
- 12: Jaez (Jan 10, 2003)
- 13: Rik Bailey (Jan 10, 2003)
- 14: Gubernatrix (Jan 10, 2003)
- 15: Rik Bailey (Jan 10, 2003)
- 16: GTBacchus (Jan 10, 2003)
- 17: Rik Bailey (Jan 10, 2003)
- 18: Rik Bailey (Jan 10, 2003)
- 19: Jaez (Jan 10, 2003)
- 20: Gubernatrix (Jan 10, 2003)
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