h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Post statements against the ban of Researcher Luke Skywalker here.

What happened to stage 3, the one month ban?

Luke/Owlatron seems to have skipped that bit out and gone straight from the one week to lifetime ban stage. This seems a bit unfair.

The flooding occurred on 7th Sept. The House Rules were modified to make explicit that flooding is unacceptable on 19th Sept. The Editors don't say whether this was a first offence, or whether Luke had previously received an official warning for some other misdemeanor.

IIRC, an incident of flooding did occur pre-BBC, and the perpetrator was simply warned not to do it again. A week's suspension would seem over the top, unless there were other related offences.

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F98396?thread=208661 (post 2) suggests that the user was unware that they had been suspended during the first week of suspension. This feels like a reasonable mitigating factor for opening some of those additional accounts. Further, occasionally notificaion emails do get lost in the ether, and email prefs may not be kept up to date, so this is plausible. Upon receipt of the official notification via home space (F93553?thread=208808 post 2), he confirmed that he had received the message (as requested by the editors), and said he would not post.

But the scarlett pimpernel account shows some posts made after that confirmation. That's disturbing, and would be enough in itself to justify the permanent ban under the current rules, assuming that scarlett pimpernel and luke skywalker are the same person, and not a work colleague, etc. We can only speculate on that, unfortunately.

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It seems to me that a months ban would be appropriate at this stage. If Luke is a genuine trouble-maker, then he'll break the terms of that ban, and will be banned permanently. If Luke can stay off h2g2 for a month and avoid making trouble, then why not let him back on?

-Martin

GD, there was a month ban:

"Two new accounts were opened during his initial one week suspension (which began on 10 September, 2002), including one that was breaking the House Rules further by posting offensive material, and so in accordance with the Transgressions procedure he was moved to a one month suspension (on the 11 September, 2002)."

The opening of five accounts after that is clearly breaking the ban, thus 'qualifying' for lifetime.

As for whether it is the same person behind the accounts we will have to trust the Eds.

The details were updated after I (and GreyDesk) posted. Based on that new info, I think a lifetime ban is warranted.

Obviously, if Owlatron and Luke Skywalker are different people, the Editors should make it as easy as possible for them to prove it. A couple of phone calls should do the trick.

Ah, sorry... (Where was that thread with the question on whether the Eds should be allowed to update things all the time?! )

So it looks like some people are saying that they're not sure whether or not the accounts have been opened by one person or by more than one person. It could be his friend not him at all?

That came up with the last banning didn't it the itallics have to prove that they were the same person and that it wasn't a case of mistaken identity. Are they opening all these accounts using one email account that has been checked to lead back to the one person or are they not sure who is posting using which account?

With a specific proviso of wanting to know more about the offensive material that Luke posted, I don't think he should be banned for life.

As I said in the other thread here, I see him being guilty of not much more than being a bloody fool. A strongly worded clip around the ear explaining the purpose of h2g2 and the etiquette expected, plus completion of the one month ban should be enough.

I presume the mass of backlog posted to those two threads was identical and done with the 'back button & Post Message button' technique. Well that is both easy to spot and easy to remove, so should not be a major drain on moderator resources. I cite my own experiences of such - F42046?thread=103826&skip=160&show=20 (the 'fun' begins on the next blob and goes on in a hap hazard manner for the next 8 blobs or so. And notice I'm the only one of three of us posting there to get his collar felt for 'anti-social' behaviour )

Now if one REALLY wants to give a moderator a hard time. Try starting two threads called say, "No No No" (F63252?thread=100492 )and "Questions Only" (F63419?thread=100987 ) and have a mad race to 20,000 postings. On the 26th February there were 1,540 and 792 posts respectively to those two threads. The top 10 posters with the greatest number of postings in 24 hours were all contributors to one or other, or both and had over 2,000 postings between them. Did anyone complain that the site was getting spammed with gibberish in a dash to get to some postings target? Of course they didn't.

I'd like to see some confirmation that Luke/Owlatron/Graham whatever is actually over 16 years old. His conversations have been about Thundercats and breasts. Now, I have nothing against Thundercats or breasts (have some myself) (breasts, that is), but surely there's more to this guy's life than that? He has made no substantial contribution to this site, and he's using it as his own personal playground. There's plenty of places that will talk for hours about breasts and Thundercats - why not find those and monopolize the time of their moderators?

My vote is not to ban him. As GreyDesk has pointed out, immature behavior is not enough to kick out a researcher. It's enough to justify scorn and ridicule, but not banning. He deserves a chance to mend his ways.

"He deserves a chance to mend his ways."

After breaching the terms of the Week-ban and then the terms of the Month-ban?

Which are - arguably - chances to mend his ways. If he persistantly breaks the rules while banned then he blows those chances.

I am concerned about the mistaken identity issue though. As has already been said, a couple of phonecalls would sort that out, if it was practical to make them.

B

I suspect the fact that the chap's talking about Thundercats is enough to show he's over 16- I'm 20, and can only just remember it.

I'm inclined to go along with GreyDesk's thinking on this one- the chap's just been an idiot, and I don't think he's really got the gist of what h2g2's all about- his postings from new accounts after he'd been banned suggest he really didn't know what was going on. Ignorance may be no defence, and within the letter of the rules he deserves a life time ban, but still, my personal gut feeling is that a strongly worded b*****king should do it.

Having said that, that raises some questions about fair and equal treatment I suppose

> "That came up with the last banning didn't it? The Italics had to prove that they were the same person and that it wasn't a case of mistaken identity."

Nope. TPTB had reasonable evidence to suggest that the various accounts were opened on the same computer, and that was sufficient. It was up to the people caught up in the mistaken identity to demonstrate who they were, or at least provide some evidence of their own - by email, phone, or other off-h2g2 communication. I hope TPTB will make it as easy as possible to provide this evidence, and accept that fully conclusive evidence may be difficult to provide if one of the two parties is not co-operating.

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I should mention A694028 - my suggested 'parole' policy for h2g2. It is particularly applicable to cases like this one: where a Researcher may have behaved in a hot-headed and arguably juvenile manner that he may well regret in six months time.

-Martin

"immature behavior is not enough to kick out a researcher" - my thoughts too. According to his personal space Luke Skywalker is 27.

It may not true. Does it make a difference if he's over 21?

Luke and Owlatron *are* different people... but Owlatron at least did open a new account to continue on the Guide, and then created a few more to seemingly switch between them and not get caught. This was stupid and wasteful, but my interactions with him have always been cordial and/or informative. Could we maybe try another ban, see if he sticks with it, and then put him on probation?

I haven't talked to Luke much and can't tell you what his other screen names are or anything.

I guess I will support whatever the italics decide, but I think maybe there could be another way to deal with it before life banishment.

"Luke and Owlatron *are* different people"

How can you tell? (as a reverse version of the question to the Eds how they can tell that she/he/they are the same individual)

I have been in conversation with both Owlatron and Luke, almost simultaneously. Admittedly there would appear to be no way of telling if they are the same person. However, the messages I got from both of them gave me the impression that they two quite distinct characters. Now either Owlatron/Andy has got a multiple personality disorder, or they are different people. I am fairly convinced that they are different people. I don't believe Owlatron should be kicked off, and am not aware of the situation he is currently in. Luke Skywalker/Robbie - I don't know if he should be banned. Though at the end of the day he must have known the rules, and he broke them.

Whenever Owlatron has contacted me under various names, he never tried to hide who he was, he just had a new screen name. I suppose someone might develop alter-egos for a game, but in this case I seriously doubt it, also considering the time frames Luke and Owlatron are on, and I have had the same experience as Terran...

Something has to be done about the broken rules, I agree to that.

Isn't there someway to delete all the alternate names but one from the email address, and give Owlatron a chance to secure his computer? Then if Luke is a different person, he will have to come up with his own account, and they can be held accountable from there, or something... I don't know... it just seems like it would be a shame if Owlatron is telling the truth and we get him banned. I am biased because I enjoy talking to him on the Guide and in RL.

yeah, my limited experience with Owlatron has been good too

-Lucinda