h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I attended a series of lectures on song-writing, at which the lecturer (a professor of something unrelated and a long time amateur song writer) said that good poetry does not make a good song lyric. For example, Paul Simon, a pretty fair songwriter, rewrote Edwin Arlington Robinson's poem "Richard Cory" for a song of the same name. I'm curious why this is ... I suspect it's a matter of matching the emphasized musical notes to a singable sound in the lyric. Or something?

Singer/songwriter Todd Snider introduced a song once by saying it was supposed to be about (_____ - I forget), but when he got done getting it all to rhyme, it wasn't about that anymore.

Poetry can be set to music if you no what you're doing. You have to build the music around the words and not the words to fit the music. Of course certain poetry has a rhythm that is almost impossible to turn into music but the right stuff works.

Lyrics written specifically for music will be better though because hopefully the lyricist will have enough musical knowledge to create expressive musical rhythms within the text before it is even given a melody.

If you're old enough to remember Procul Harem, and A Whiter Shade of Pale, or the newer version by some female, then you'll probably be astounded to hear that it turned up as a poem on my daughter's GCSE course work.

Rap music??

I suspect that poetry can be converted to song but it's not quite so simple going the other way ... songs have a tune to keep tempo and so therefore don't depend on logical scanning ...

"I am he as you are he as you are me
and we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun
see how they fly
I'm crying
Sitting on a cornflake
Waiting for the van to come
Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday
Man you've been a naughty boy
you let your face grow long " Lennon/McCartney

Loses a certain something as poetry does it not?

As a song though it works ...

Actually it depends how you write the poetry sometimes mine does follow a rhytm within the lines and there the emphasis would appear on the same beats in each verse. As some one who has written both poetry and song lyrics it is possible that one can be both and also that a poem may not make a great song. Also strangely a song does not always not make good poetry especially with a lot of oob la di la da.

Except as I read I am the Walrus, the tune is playing in my head!

"Except as I read I am the Walrus, the tune is playing in my head!"

Yup, me, too.

I once gave a copy of the lyrics to Paul Simon's "Sound of Silence" to my English teacher (long ago) and asked her opinion of the poetry. She (a very intelligent nun who I think had not heard the song) looked at it and said, "It's a song lyric." End of discussion.

Some things that you cook fall apart in the oven. seperate into something that looks like the ingredients you started with but does not unify.
The craft is sometimes embodied in experimentation or coincidence or experience or knowledge.
For the sake of a pinch of powder, half an egg yolk, a drop of vinegar or a dash of magic or courage, that thing stands up a beauty.
Its ingredients are not what it is. IT is what it is.
A song, a poem, a songpoem, a poemsong, a cake, anything. They work when they work

Didn't Brian Ferry do a very nice rendering of a Shapespearean sonnet
Shall I compare thee to a summers day?

... and Pete Seeger did pretty well with his adaptation of the Book of Ecclesiastes for "Turn! Turn! Turn!", which did pretty well for the Byrds. The Bible as a source of a Number 1 Chart hit, who woulda thunk it?

I believe most composers start with the lyrics rather that the melody. At least that's what Gene Simmons of "Kiss" told me when I asked him once. From what I've read of the major song writers, including Rodgers and Hammerstein, Gilbert and Sullivan to Elton John,they begin with the lyrics. It falls on the shoulders of the composer to assimulate the words to notes which create an appropriate melody. Now, creating the melody which rings true to the hearts of others is where a composer's talent lies. Talent being an unseen gift from heaven is not bestowed on everyone. The words whether from a poem, created specifically for a song or derived from a story are at the mercy of a composer's gift. Linda

I vaguely recall a story that may be an exception. Paul McCartney was talking about "Yesterday" (I think) which he had temporarily titled "Scrambled Eggs". I think it was just the melody that had him concerned he had heard it somewhere before. So he's going around asking people, "Have you heard this?" Nobody had, and the rest is history. The temporary title makes me think the lyric came later, but I dunno ...

The lyrics do normally come first but if your sitting there and all of a sudden an amazing tune just floats into your head might want to write some lyrics that fit it.
I think another key element of writing the lyrics is knowing the person who's doing the composing that's how partners (like Rogers & Hammerstein) develop. By knowing each other they can fit together better.

Did you know that Elton and his long time lyricist barely knew each other? They were matched up by someone in the industry, I believe. I also heard that Tim Rice, is who now working with Elton, waits until the last minute to send Elton the lyrics. In fact, Elton was in the recording studio at the piano when Tim Rice faxed the lyrics to him for the Lion King. I think Paul may have wisely used "Scrambled Eggs" while he was doing his research to protect his copyright of "Yesterday".
Poetry is more often than not "deeper" than song lyrics. Not that there aren't song lyrics with serious, deep emotions or stories, but Poetry's forte is strong emotion if well written. Yes, songs can make you cry. In fact, a melody, no lyrics, can make you cry. I'm just talking the number of songs vs the number of poems.