h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Am I the only one who thinks that Michael Owen went down like a sack of potatoes in the Argentine penalty area?

I will admit my view in the pub was rather restricted owing to the place being rammed full, but I got the feeling that there was an element of diving involved. (Not that I care that much )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/photo_galleries/newsid_2016000/2016639.stm

Go to picture five, it clearly shows contact made. It wasn't a fake.



Ste

Hmm, yes you are right. There is an *element* of contact going on there. I do hope Michael wasn't too badly hurt

He is a bit, um, light on his feet isn't he

It was a foul, and Michael kindly helped the referee to do his job properly by making the decision easier for him.

Now when he went down to win the England penalty against Argentina in 1998 - THAT was a dive!

Yeah, it was a foul. At first, from the camera angle they showed the first replay from, I thought it was a huge dive. But subsequent replays showed the contact .

Well, it may be very unEnglish to say this, but against Argentina anything goes. For too long we were on the recieving end.

Ste

I agree - there is one angle that makes it look very suspicious, and I was quite surprised when it was given. But the trip isn't with the leg you think it is, and on the reverse angle it's a clear foul.


Otto

Hmm - I have to say - I thoought Owen dived too at first, then the reverse angle showed all, as they say...

Having said that - I have seen far worse in the box which have been waved away as dives, so the ref ('Scary Stare' Collina) really was quite sharp to sport that.

Well Owen's dive in 1998 only evened up the score of stolen penalties in the game against Argentina. Oh and whilst we're on the subject, I'm probably the only English person to believe that Beckham's dismissal for kicking Simeone was correct

Not so, GD! I said that Beckham couldn't complain about that decision in my 1998 World Cup Entry: A562042 . Deliberately kicking an opponent is violent conduct, and violent conduct means you're off!

Indeed - Simeone may have reacted if he had been hit with the 2:08 from Buenos Aires when it was just a little kick - but it was still a kick nevertheless.

On looking at the footage again, Beckham was disappointed when he was sent off, but he didn't complain.

Interestingly - there have been (I think) two red cards in this current tournament - one for Croatia (don't remember the player... sorry) and Thierry Henry's studs-up tackle. Neither of them complained as they were sent off.

Does anyone think that Batistuta can count himself fortunate not to go? Yellow card followed a minute later by a (deliberate?) elbow??

Otto

Yes, I'd certainly go along with that, Otto. It should have been a straight red card!

Witty Ditty, I'm really glad you made that last posting, because it prompted me to go and have a look at the statistics section of the official FIFA World Cup site. There, I found this brilliant table, which is pure footie anorak heaven! http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/t/st/tf/trc/index.html

By clicking on the headings at the top, you can arrange the teams by number of red cards, number of yellow cards, number of fouls committed, and much, much more! I love it! (Sad? Me? )

Anyway, you can see that there have actually been five red cards so far: two for Turkey and one each for France, Croatia and Senegal. I've seen most of the games, and I don't remember seeing anyone make a particularly big fuss after getting the red card. I think most players have realised that dissent just gets them in more trouble. The fact that FIFA are checking video evidence to review all the cards that are shown to players may be helping. Injustices can be corrected, up to a point - although, of course, in the case of a red card nothing can be done retrospectively about the fact that your team was playing a man short.

Yep - it's just like protesting at a dodgy line call really; the ref's decision is final, no matter how dodgy the incident may have been

That table's not bad though - I completely forgot Turkey were down to 9 men

I didn't know about the video review of all cards shown - that's a good idea in theory, but as you say, absolutely nowt you can do about it post-event.

Actually - can anyone remind me which team it was against that Rivaldo was hit in the b**locks and went down clutching his face?

And yep - it should have been a straight red after the elbow - that was one stroke of luck for Batistuta.

Brazil are scarily back on form aren't they

The Rivaldo incident was what led to Turkey's second red card.

The good thing about the video review is that it can save players from being unjustly suspended. So in the case of a red card, although nothing could be done about the fact that the team lost a player during a match, at least they wouldn't lose that player for the next game too.

Brazil are certainly looking pretty good, but I'm not convinced by their defence. I think they'll concede a few goals when they come up against stronger opposition. We'll see!

Ah yes - cheers (shame on me for forgetting that!)

They also seem to be using it for diving too, as per the Rivaldo indcident (although the guy should have been sent off)

I wonder what would have happened had Rivaldo been hit in the face