h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*Does that make sense to anyone else...???*

Sorry... but I'd like to point out a VAST error in this conversation. Above it has been stated that if you own a television, you HAVE to have a BBC TV licence. (Admitedly this was adpated later on)... But this is NOT the case. I own a TV, and a TV decoder card... I also own a VCR and DVD. However I do not own a TV licence. This is because I do not receive TV signals. However this doesn't seem to stop the TV licencing agency, sending me agressive, threatening, unsolicited mail telling me to get a TV licence or else!!! I have TOLD them on frequent occasions that I DO NOT have an aerial, or receive signals... they have even sent an engineer round to confirm this. But yet STILL! They insist on sending me what is effectively junk mail! ... I can understand that TV licence evasion is a very serious problem. A little like if you refused to pay your BT phone bill... But it still dosn't justify the level to which the TV licencing people goto, to ensure people get the idea.

Personally I'd have no problem with paying a TV licence fee, if I wanted to receive the signals. It too is like the electric bill, or a mobile bill... If you use it, you pay for it!??? What is unreasonable about that for goodness sake!??? Is EVERYONE just so selfish and deceiptfull that they want EVERYTHING free??? Somethings COST... actually most things cost... but especially TV programs... And the "price" that has been paid, for "free" TV, is Adverts. Which just make me want to scream... and tacky programs that are only there for the ratings...

(Shame on you BBC! For lowering the standard of the once Proud Eastenders! Where "once" it was about "ordinary" people living "ordinary" lives... and "ocassionally" something dramatic would happen. Now it has reduced itself to the Lowest Common Denominator, and insists on showing us complete and utter garbage! ... Sorry, but NOT ALL MEN CHEAT or ARE DRUNKARDS!!! And not all Women BITCH continuously, SLAP anyone insight or HAVE to bring up the children because the Husbands left. This is a shameful portrayl of an unrealistic concentrated society. YES these things happen, YES it's relevant to see them occasionally.... BUT NOT ALL THE TIME PLEASE!!!





*kicks a around till someone joins in...*

Reply to post 19 & 20

“The bottom line is that they are a commercial enterprise”
No there not – While the BBC may have commercial arms all profits go into the general pot and help keep the licence fee down, The BBC its self is a non profit making body.

“Single mothers and the unemployed get paid the same as anyone else, wrong”
Nobody forces them to watch TV as Indicated earlier TV is a non-essential item, I also think they would be hard pushed to find equivalent entertainment for £2,12 a week. I also have little sympathy for these people, they should go and get a job instead of sponging off the state.

“why then does Eastenders seem to get another night added to the schedule every few months?”
Perhaps because people like it?

“Therefore, they advertise beans, don't charge for their advertising, thus keeping shop prices down and also increase their profits to the level that they no longer require a licence fee”

Whose a Silly Billy then

Reply to post 21 - The licence is collected by a contractor on behalf of the BBC.

Fish, if you don't receive a TV signal, how exactly do you know that Eastenders ain't as good as it used to be?

We are about to witness a dramatic example of the difference that adverts make in TV programs with the start of the World Cup tomorrow. ITV can't stick an advert break in the middle of half so they will have to go a full 45+ minutes without a break. Therefore the times before and after the match, plus half time will be stuffed full of ads, leaving no time for match analysis and for the build up of the match atmosphere. That naturally enough will not apply to the BBC coverage.

When we get to the later stages of the tournament, particularly the final, the game will be broadcast simultaneously on both BBC and ITV. This is the point when people vote with their remote controls and the BBC will beat ITV in the rating by a factor of about 3 to 1 for what is essentially excatly the same programme. The reason, no ad breaks on the Beeb.

This is a reply to some of the earlier posts suggesting that we should pay an income-related tax to fund the bbc.

I think one fixed price licence is the simplest and fairest way of exacting a charge for the beeb, and would be totally against any form of means testing people for those who wish to have a TV. If you make paying for the licence income-related you will dramatically increase the cost of processing licences. This will increase the cost of the licence without increasing funding for programs - not very popular with anyone. This would probably increase fraud too as more people try and evade the higher rates.

I have a reasonably good job that requires me to work long hours. I don't watch much TV, but do listen to radio 4 in the car - probably 3-4 hours a week, oh and h2g2 as well . The reason I earn more is that I am not sitting at home watching tv so how is it fair that I should pay more for it than somebody who has a lower wage and shorter hours, therefore more opportunity to make use of the service? This just seems unfair to me.

" If you make paying for the licence income-related you will dramatically increase the cost of processing licences."

Not if it was just taken from the existing income-tax (which could be raised, especially at the top end for high-earners).

You might argue that it's unfair to make everyone pay when not everyone uses the Beeb, but public money gets spent on all sorts of things that only a few people use. When was the last time you went to the Opera?

So now you are proposing a universal tax rather than one aimed those using the service? Again I would argue that the harder I work, the longer my hours, the more I get paid, the less I watch TV/listen to the radio. So as a top rate tax payer I would have to pay more so that other people can sit at home and watch tv. No way.

"When was the last time you went to the Opera?"
And the argument that one injustice excuses another is just ridiculous.

If my income tax is to go up again I would not support that rise for the BBC *no offence chaps* but would rather see increased spending elsewhere.

Well I'd say that there should be a flat wage and everyone paid the same...

Yes, there's lots of important things that tax should be spent on, but public information, education and entertainment (the remit of the Beeb) should be included...

To Post 24,

For a start I used to live with my parents, and my Mum "used" to watch as I did occasionally, Eastenders. However she has refused to for ages now because of the way in which people behave on the program. And I am inclined to agree with her.

Besides, just cos I don't receive a tv signal, doesn't mean my friends don't....


The power of friendship, ain't it great!

Re post 22, by HappyDude: 'Single mothers and the unemployed... nobody forces them to watch TV. As indicated earlier TV is a non-essential item, I also think they would be hard pushed to find equivalent entertainment for £2.12 a week. I also have little sympathy for these people. They should go and get a job instead of sponging off the state.'

Well, that's fine, HappyDude. This unemployed person doesn't need or want your sympathy. You're also absolutely right about the good value that the TV licence represents.

However: '...they should go and get a get a job instead of sponging off the state.'

Perhaps you live in some enchanted land where anyone who wants a job can easily get a good one. I'd be interested to know where it is. It sure as hell isn't Bradford, where I live. And single mothers, particularly poor ones, often have child-care problems that make it difficult for them to work, even assuming they can find a job.

Obvious, I would have thought. But perhaps it's only obvious to people who've been in that sort of situation, or who have some interest in understanding what the reality is like for people worse off than themselves. I'm here to tell you that trying to live on a little over £50 a week isn't much fun, and it isn't something that many people really like to do. And although TV isn't an essential item in the same way that food or shelter is, if it wasn't for the TV and h2g2, I honestly think I'd go mad.

To return to the topic: I rather like the idea of the BBC being funded out of income tax. I do agree that the licence fee is a regressive tax. That said, I think the most important thing is for the BBC to remain publicly funded.

Although it's obviously a struggle for me to pay the licence fee (my family help out, or I couldn't manage it), I'd hate to see the BBC take outside advertising. I feel very lucky to live in a country where there's a big section of the media that doesn't have to pander to what corporate advertisers and sponsors demand, and so doesn't have to bland out and dumb down all the time.

Here's to the BBC!

If there are no jobs or child care in Bradford then why stay there

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "anyone who wants a job can easily get a good one", in my experience those who do not work do so because they are not prepared to do the work that is available. I have done some pretty crappy jobs over the years just to avoid sponging off the state. I have my standards and you have yours and if your happy living off other peoples sweat then good luck to you.

I actually hit the 'yikes' button after reading your last posting, HappyDude, because I do find it highly offensive. However, I think I'd be doing you a favour by having the evidence of your smugness and insensitivity hidden, so I've changed my mind.

I like to live in Bradford because my family and friends are here. I did live in London for many years, doing a job I slowly grew to hate and which eventually drove me to a nervous breakdown and heart trouble. I finally lost the job (an event which possibly saved my life) and some time later decided to come home, mainly because I couldn't afford to live in London any longer. Right now, I'm doing a lot of work. I write loads for h2g2, for a start. I think that's a valuable contribution to the world, even though it's unpaid and thus doesn't count if you look at everything in purely economic terms.

I don't see why anyone should be forced into doing a job that makes their life a misery. I've found out the hard way how low that can drag a person, and I'm not going to make that near-fatal mistake again. But offer me a job that's compatible with sanity and I'm there, believe me.

Apologies to the rest of you for this unseemly bout of angry topic drift, but I frankly haven't been so offended by anything I've read on h2g2 in ages. For a while I hoped HappyDude was being ironic. Evidently that was a false hope.

I hope that normal TV service can now be resumed.

*tries not to get between them...*

I'm not ENTIRELY sure which stick that Happydude, has gotten hold of the end of... But I'm fairly sure it was the WRONG one...

I suppose if you read your previous posting too fast, Ormy, it "could" have been interpretted in the way which Happydude "seems" to have done. Although there is NO excuse for what was actually said! ... I think both of you need to relax a little....



*Passes some 's around*

Here.... *kicks a into the middle of the conversation* ... have something else to argue about...

What was so offensive about what I said

I just said that personally I prefer to work for my money rather than wait for a cheque to come through the post curtsey of the taxpayer, and that I personally have little sympathy for those that feel otherwise.

If you disliked your job so much, you did the right thing to leave but as far as I am concerned there are very few good excuses for being unemployed more than a few weeks, there are jobs out there and if you don’t like them then there are training & educational opportunities.

I believe in the welfare state and have defended it here when set upon by some of the more right wing US researchers. I think it is important to have a safety net for when people fall, I just think it is a pity that so many jump head first on to the safety net and then proceed to use it as a trampoline.

'...if your happy living off other peoples sweat...' seems to me to be as offensive as it is ungrammatical, HappyDude. I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't relish my situation. I think, also, that it's glib and inaccurate to generalise about how '...there are jobs out there...' Possibly there are, somewhere, if you live in the right area, have the right experience, and are perceived to be the right age, but that doesn't apply to us all. Unfortunately, the areas where there are more jobs tend to cost the to live in. I know there are training and educational opportunities out there: I've recently been on a full-time training course for three months, and acquired two computing qualifications via evening classes last year. Sadly, out there in the job market, the effect seems to be minimal.

Ah well. Thanks for the , ! It's a useful reminder that at least there's something to look forward to over the next month - and thanks to the BBC, and ITV, all of us here in Britain will be able to watch it. On the BBC, we'll even be able to watch it without endless annoying ad breaks!

Thanks Ormy..... **




Happydude; did you not notice your COMPLETE misquote!?!!!!??? I think if you ARE going to quote what someone has said, at least take it in context, and try to understand it's meaning.

You stated that "...I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "anyone who wants a job can easily get a good one", "....

However what Ormy had actually said was: "Perhaps you live in some enchanted land where anyone who wants a job can easily get a good one. ..."

There are a few other misunderstandings that seem to have gone unnoticed to...

Can I ask, have you ever been on the dole/claimed benefit/aka sponging off the state? Personally I haven't, however I HAVE paid thousand upon thousand of pounds of income tax and national insurance over my work life. This rightly should entitle me to claim this back if I am unemployed for a short time. However I have been unemployed now for 2 Months! Part of that was spent with a friend in wales, but the rest has been spent "trying" to find a job. I live in the Thames Valley, probably the area of England with the HIGHEST accumilation of excess jobs! With crazy rent/house prices to match! Despite having a ton of experiance, and qualifications, you "should" think that I would have found a job after the first week of looking, but no! Life just doesn't "work" like that ok!??? Somethings aren't simply "well why doesn't he just get a job?". You tell me!!! I have resorted to looking for shop work, till something long term comes along, but still with relatiely little success. Also take my friend Bluebottle, he has been looking for a job for the past AGE! However working in Mcdonalds, and with only half a degree he has had very little success.

I really think that this matter really needs to be put on ice, as it's just "slightly" drifted off the topic....

Yay! Addless TV!!! *Lines up various friends houses to crash at, whilst enjoying this addless marvel! *

You couldn’t of been trying very hard - almost ever Mc D's & BK I go in Thames Valley area is advertising for staff - as I said people are not willing to do the work available.

As to me Claiming Dole - No, I just do crappy jobs until I find something I want.

as to the others people sweat comment - well that’s exactly what the dole is.

Finally, I fail to se the point of moving to & living somewhere with high unemployment - time to follow Mr Tebbit’s advice and get on your bike.

Ummm...

Forgive me if I'm wrong... but are you actually listening to us...

If you meant that you thought I was saying "I couldn't find a job in McD or BK", then that isn't true. I simply refuse to work for them as I am completely opposed to the way in which they have behaved. Likewise ANY company that I have an ethical, or moral problem with, I will NOT work for. Otherwise I would be a hypacrite and be going against my sense of justice and honour.
I was refering to Bluebottle having a job at McD, and trying to find work else where.
Besides which, I'm not a child, nor am I unintelligant. I'm an Electronic Engineer who unless you can't read my name, is getting married in 6 weeks! Thus finding a job at McD, is NOT at the top of my list... Ok...???

"No, I just do crappy jobs until I find something I want." Good for you that unfortunately IS the way in which this social system seems to work. However not EVERYONE "can" do that ok?... Just accept it. Unless you've been in their situation you CAN NOT comment on it!

"well that's exactly what the dole is." Yes, for some... but NOT ALL! And I too get cross with people who abuse it, BUT it IS there for a very important reason! The rich of this country are getting richer, and the poor, poorer... And we are slowly but surely going the way of the Romans....

As for your last point; What!??? The only people who would do that, are people that are retiring. Or people that have gone there to help that community (aka Missionaries from the States)... However NOT everyone can "simply" move to a different place, away from their family, the neighbourhood they grew up in, and anything that they can feel at home with. It IS NOT as easy as you make it out to be! And quite frankly, I'm finding your comments arrogant, and insensitive!

Sorry.... I am not the sort of person who get's easily annoyed, but it just seems to me, that you haven't been listening to us AT ALL! And mearly replying without reading through what has been written properly...

*Give's everyone a , and passes some 's around...*

*spreads happiness and forgiveness around a bit*
as for my opinion (and back to the original topic):
i think the licence fee is very good value for money, because it isn't only £2.12 a week per person per TV, it's that much for however many people and however many TVs you have. i'm not too bothered about advrts in the middle of programs on TV (provides a good opportunity for a loo break ) but i can't *stand* adverts online, and as long as the licence fee is keeping adverts off h2g2, i'm a happy . there was probably something else i had to say...oh yes, i don't pay the license fee myself, because i'm just one of the kids in the famil, but i asked mum what she thinks about it, and she seems to think it's all fine and dandy
^. .^
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