h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well you have learned about Celtic Devon; why not look into celtic Cornwall now and continue you journey south west.

Here are three websites that are a great source of information and good portals.

A Cornish source book: http://cornovia.org.uk/

This is not Cornwall! This is Kernow: http://www.thisisnotcornwall.co.uk/

Cornwall 24: http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/

Cheers now!

look at these great maps now on the BBC h2g2 site!

Maps of Cornwall (Kernow): http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A10686710

Fulup,

Some interesting material.

An obvious issue from someone this side of the Tamar is the way the cover sheet story treats the "Western Rebellion" as if it was purely a Cornish affair. As you know many thousand's of Devonians also rebelled (in fact the Whitsunday rebellion started in Devon) and subsequently died.

I understand the page is dedicated to Cornwall, but this doesn't justify such a massive distortion.

Ozzie Exile is right, to speak of the Western Rebellion as strictly a Cornish uprising is incorrect. The rebellion began in Devon (at Sampford Courtenay) and from there it spread throughout Devon and Cornwall. Not only Cornishmen but men from Devon fought, suffered, and died in the rebellion. To deny that is to deny them their sacrifice and their place in history. Rather than viewing the Western Rebellion as strictly Cornish it should be seen as a cause that united the people of Cornwall and Devon against what many must have perceived as a foreign power.

The rebellion was not exclusively about language but language certainly was a factor. I have often wondered if any of the rebels who “professed not to understand” English may have come from east of the Tamar and what effect their defeat and subsequent suppression may have had on the survival of the old language there.

Here is how historian S.T. Bindoff described the Western Rebellion in his book "Tudor England" first published in 1951(this from the 1983 edition):

“In compiling his Prayer Book entirely in English Cranmer had yielded, not without some lingering regret, to the arguments in favour of a language understanded of the people. But there were a good many of the king’s subjects whose vernacular was not English, and in their case the new liturgy was designed to serve an educational as well as a religious purpose. Both the Welsh and the Irish were given special editions, and the first Act of Uniformity thus took its place among the measures designed to promote political unity by the universalizing of the dominant language. This linguistic aspect of the Prayer Book had a small share in fomenting the one serious outbreak of popular resistance to in, the Western Rebellion. Over most of the country the introduction of the Book on Whitsunday 1549 passed off smoothly enough. But at one Devon village the parishioners were so incensed that on the following day they compelled the priest to don his vestments and celebrate Mass in the old fashion. Neighbouring parishes followed their example and before the end of the month large parts of Devon and Cornwall were in open rebellion against the new dispensation. Although, as we have seen, economic and social grievances played some part in it, the Western Rebellion was essentially what it purported to be, a violent protest against the religious policy of the Protectorate. The articles put forward by the rebels summed up in admirably terse and simple language the Catholic demand for a return to the ‘good old days’ of Henry VIII, although not, be it noted, those of Papal Supremacy. They demanded the Latin Mass, communion in one kind, all the old customs and images, and the Act of Six Articles to safeguard these things in the future. The new Prayer Book they likened to a ‘Christmas game’, and they rejected both its content and its English, a language which some of them professed not to understand. They made no attempt to argue the theological issues, and it is doubtful whether even the priests among the rebels would have been either much interested in or conversant with these. What had stirred them and their flocks to anger was the sudden and, to them, unwarranted suppression by a remote and unfamiliar government of the rites and symbols which made up so large a part of their religion.

“Although the news of the Western Rebellion came on top of the first reports of widespread agrarian disturbance, and was quickly followed by tidings of the great upheaval in East Anglia, the Protector met it with the same humanity and forbearance, and withal the same obstinate optimism, which had marked all his doings. ‘Content yourselves good people. See your shires of Devonshire and Cornwall well in order. See the corn and the fruits of the earth, which God hath sent of his most gracious clemency, gathered now in time, whereby ye shall be sustained in winter. Do not with this rage and fury drive yourselves to the sword, your wives and children to famine and hunger. If anything be to be reformed in our laws, the Parliament is near at hand...’. It was the same language that he used towards the Norfolk rebels. Unfortunately he no longer spoke for his colleagues who where determined to teach the turbulent commons a lesson. The brothers Carew went down to Devon with harsh orders of which Somerset knew nothing, and as soon as Russell, the royal commander, received his reinforcements, including the foreign mercenaries, he cut through the peasant ranks at St. Mary Clyst, relieved hard-pressed Exeter, and finally annihilated the rebels in the same village from which, two months before, the signal for revolt had been given. By the end of August it was all over in the East and West. Some thousands of peasant households mourned their menfolk slaughtered on the battlefield, some hundreds those who expiated their treasons on the gallows of a dozen counties”

S.T. Bindoff, "Tudor England". Harmoadsworth, Middlesex: Penguin Books Ltd, 1983, pp. 155-157.

The Myth of descent of the Cornish Nation

So we all know about King Arthur, what about any other Cornish myths and legends that people know?

Wait for it, wait for it, here comes mister constructive "Yeah the Cornish nation is a myth".

Who knows about the 'Brutus myth' for example?

An ancient legend, the Brutus Myth, recounted by Geoffrey of Monmouth gives explicit reference to the Cornish people in describing their decent. The legend tell how Albion was colonised by refugees from Troy under King Brutus, how Brutus re named his new Kingdom, Britain, and how the island was subsequently divided up between his three sons - the eldest inheriting England, the other two Scotland and Wales. Additionally according to the legend; it was two groups of Trojans who originally arrived in Britain. The smaller group was led by a warrior named Corineus, to whom Brutus granted extensive estates. And just as Brutus had ‘called the island Britain…and his companions Britons’, so Corineus called ‘the region of the kingdom which had fallen to his share Cornwall, after the manner of his own name, and the people who lived there…Cornishmen’.

No other region is picked out for such special treatment; it is clear that, as far as Geoffrey was concerned, Cornwall possessed a separate identity. Cornishmen and women continued to regard themselves as descendents of Corineus until well into the early modern period.

Mark Stoyel in his book West Britons, explores this in much greater detail.

Such legends are a key indicators used by experts to describe distinct nations and ethnic groups.

I wonder if Geoffrey of Monmouth, writing in the second quarter of the twelfth century, would have applied the term Cornish exclusively to those people living west of the Tamar or if he would have used it to apply more generally to all those people who spoke the Celtic language of southwest Britain. If he used it in this broader sense it would have applied to some inhabitants of Devon as well. In “The History of Cornwall from the Earliest Records to the Present Time” (Helston: William Penaluna, 1824) Fortescue Hitchens and Samuel Drew state that, “The Cornish language, it appears, was current in a part of the South Hams in the time of Edward 1st (1272-1307)”. That’s about 150 years after Geoffrey wrote his “History of the Kings of Britain”. They go on to say that “Long after that it was common on the banks of the Tamar and in Cornwall it was universally spoken.”

Fulub,

I know about this myth, because a large part of the action occurs in Totnes, Devon, where you can still see the ‘Brutus Stone’ embedded in the High Street. In the legend, Totnes was where Brutus arrived and founded Britain.

It was near Totnes that Corineus—the legendary founder of Cornwall—was believed to have thrown the giant Gogmagog over a cliff to his death. As a reward for this feat, he was given Cornwall to rule.

I think because the places mentioned in the myth are so specific, that Geoffrey of Monmouth in the 12th century may have been building on a legend, known in medieval Wales, that had been extant in Cornwall and Devon for some time. Why, otherwise, would he have concentrated on these areas?

In a book called “Popular Romances of the West of England: Or the Drolls, Traditions, and Superstitions of Old Cornwall.” written in 1885, Robert Hunt quotes a writer called Robert Heath who wrote in 1750;

“The activity of the Cornish and Devonshire men, beyond others in the faculty of Wrestling, seems to derive their Pedigree from that grand Wrestler, Corineus. That there has been such a giant as Gogmagog, opposed by Corineus, the inhabitants of Plymouth show you a Portraiture of two Men, one bigger than the other, with Clubs in their hands, cut out upon the Haw-ground, which have been renewed by the order of the Place, as they ear out; a steep cliff being near, over which the giant might be thrown, are said to point out together the Probability of the Fact.”

There were, apparently figures cut into the soil at Plymouth, representing the fight between Gogmagog and Corineus, and, according to this writer, the old wrestling tradition in Cornwall and Devon is linked with this mythology.

Although the legend of Brutus is now derided and dismissed, I think there may be grains of truth in it from antiquity. Both Devon and Cornwall, far before the Roman times, were engaged in tin trading with ancient Greece and Phoenicia.

Dated to 1750 BC, a shipwreck with ingots of tin was found at the mouth of the river Erme in Devon. That is over 3,500 years ago.

http://www.geevor.com/more/timetrek/Timetrek%20index.htm

Wrestling, associated with Devon and Cornwall, was a major sport in ancient Greece. There is also the strange issue of clotted cream, which, outside of Devon and Cornwall, is apparently only found in Lebanon, which along with Syria was the homeland of the Phoenician civilization.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082985158.html?from=storyrhs

http://www.roddas.co.uk/extra1.asp

The same explanation is proposed for the use of saffron in the cooking of Cornwall and Devon;

http://www.cornish-links.co.uk/recipes.htm#Saffron-Buns

http://www.waitrose.com/food_drink/wfi/ingredients/herbsspicesseasoningsandcondiments/0409064.asp

It is, of course, romantic to think that Devon and Cornwall hosted an ancient civilization that was part of pre-Roman antiquity, and all these things may have other, more recent, explanations, but the tin trade is an accepted historical fact, and an accepted historical link between what is now Cornwall and Devon and the ancient Mediterranean. It may not have been Brutus himself, or someone that important, turning up in Bronze Age Devon, but there would certainly have been people from the ancient Classical world regularly visiting, and living and working, in Devon and Cornwall

Well over thirty seven thousand people wrote Cornish for their identity on the census.

This came after an almost total lack of publicity that you could do so.

To write in Cornish you had to deny being British, tick the others box and then write in Cornish.

I wonder how many would have ticked a Cornish box, how many would have chosen Cornish if you could be British as well?

How would it work in Devon?

http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/

>>Although the legend of Brutus is now derided and dismissed, I think there may be grains of truth in it from antiquity.<<

Almost certainly. Legends don't usually spring up out of nowhere, but are ultimately based on real people. For a more contemporary Devon example, look at all the stories that were told about Sir Francis Drake.

Fulub,

Which thread do you refer to on Cornwall24?

I did see one titled "Please help Fulub", which was intriguing, but nothing obvious on the census.

http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/PNphpBB2-viewforum-f-1.htm

No i just stuck the Cornwall 24: http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/ in because it a great site to discuss Celtic issues.

Another good site is: http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk/

But the figure is official you can ask the census people.

Ah from strenghth to strength!

From October 2007 it will finally be possible to study Cornish Studies (and Contemporary Celtic Studies) as a full-time (or part-time) degree subject at the University of Exeter’s campus in Tremough. Planned modules include Introductions to Cornish Studies and Celtic Studies, Comparative Celtic History, Heritage, antiquarians and the Cornish Celt, and Celtic Spirituality. At present this is relatively modest – Cornish Studies and Contemporary Celtic Studies will be studied as part of a joint honours degree with one of History, Politics or English (and with Geography or Law via our Flexible Combined Honours). However, if this succeeds then there is the possibility of a single honours degree in the future. This is our chance to build a quality degree and ensure that Cornish Studies to rank with Celtic Studies, Irish Studies or Welsh Studies as a recognised degree subject.

But, to make this work, they now have to recruit. The University’s traditional market is unlikely to fill the places on our programmes so we need to get the news out as widely as possible and as quickly as possible, inside Cornwall and elsewhere. So if you know any young people who will be doing their A Levels in 2007 and thinking of applying to university this coming autumn let them know. Even if you don’t please spread the news far and wide.

For a free copy of the Cornwall prospectus go to
http://www.uec.ac.uk/studying/prospectus.htm

For more information on the open day for prospective students on October 14th see www.exeter.ac.uk/openday
For more information generally get in touch with us at the ICS.

Venue: St. Keverne on the Lizard

Time & Date: 7pm TUESDAY 27th JUNE 2006

Meeting: The statues of Angof & Flamank at entry to village

A commemoration evening to mark Michael Joseph Angof to be filmed by Welsh television followed by pasty supper. This is the 40th An Gof Commemoration.

Come along and ensure that Angof, Cornish patriot has a 'name perpetual and a fame permanent and immortal' (his words before being hanged drawn and quartered by the Tudor regime in 1497).

Angoff and others stood up against tyranny and over taxation and i believe are symbols for the working man the world over not just the Cornish.

A Welsh language television team will be coming to the An Gof Remembrance on Tuesday and Wednesday. They'll be filming all the events and would like to interview some fluent Cornish speakers. It will be broadcast on Wednesday at 7.00pm

No matter what your nation i am sure one and all will be welcome, and the more the merrier!

Saw one of your flags on my journey home this time.

Looks like things are moveing in Europe!

In 1337, the Duchy of Cornwall was founded under charter. These charters laid claim to the Cornish Stannaries, an enormous source of wealth for subsequent heirs to the throne. The Stannaries were not mentioned in Domesday and cannot, therefore, be considered to be part of the King's domesne lands in 1066 (Domesday was the definitive list of property belonging to the King at that time).

In 1296, Article 52 of the Magna Charta provided that, "If any have been disseised or dispossessed by us, without a legal verdict of their peers, of their lands, castles, liberties, or rights, we will immediately restore these things to them".

In view of this, how was it that, only some 40 years later, King Edward III was able to claim, without challenge, the Cornish Stannaries as being part of his newly created Duchy of Cornwall in 1337? He must surely have known about Article 52 at that time!

At this juncture, one should bear in mind also that the Barons were very concerned that the heir to the throne should "live of his own" and that his income be independent of them and English taxpayers. The wealth of the Stannaries provided such an independent income for successive Dukes of Cornwall and continues to do so right up to the present day.

Clearly, the English majority of the UK have been freed from the burden of providing an income to the heir to the throne through taxation. Since the current incumbent is heir to the throne of England, it surely would be morally right for the whole UK population to contribute to his income - not just those of us who happen to live in the Duchy.

Please remember also that the Duchy is not encumbered with troublesome planning legislation, is exempt from compulsory purchase orders, can elect a trial at bar to protect its profits and income, and is, essentially completely above the law. The Cornish are not able to challenge this institution and its supporting legislation, even though most of the Duchy's rights and privileges fly in the face of all internationally accepted standards of human rights.

Despite the plethora of anti-discrimination measures, the unjust medieval laws appertaining to the Duchy of Cornwall remain on the statute books with precisely the same wording as when they were originally drafted. In other words, that which was done to the Cornish (in regard to the Duchy of Cornwall), is still being done right at this very moment. This makes the Cornish situation somewhat different to the other cases mentioned by Matthew Paris in his article. In our case, the wrong-doing continues unabated just as it has done for nearly 600 years and an apology without a remedy would achieve very little.

The Stannaries of Cornwall are part of an ancient series of customary rights. Customs are, in law, of overriding interest and cannot be taken away. That is why no Westminster government has been able to repeal this constitutional legislation. Moreover, how would it be possible for one sovereign parliament to revoke and repeal another?

That we had (and still have) the legal basis for our Cornish Stannary Parliament is, in my view, all we really need to secure autonomy. We just need an opportunity to present a legal argument in court, hopefully in an unbiased European one, to re-establish our suppressed customary rights.

The prerogative is, indeed, exercised by the Duke of Cornwall (heir to the throne) in Cornwall solely and nowhere else. Clearly, Charles Windsor would not commit an illegal act, would he? Of course not! So, from his exercise of the prerogative, Cornwall cannot be part of the U.K., let alone England!

The Cornish Stannary Parliament should not be taken lightly and I, for one, would be particularly keen to learn more about their activities. No doubt those on this forum inclined to support the Established order will scoff but those who really care about Cornwall should try to find out more about, and support, the legal case for Cornwall and the Cornish.

The UK government is a member of the Council of Europe and has made an undertaking that it will protect national minorities. That is the starting point because there are real, positive benefits in that status which the Cornish are being denied such as funding for cultural phenomena and a fair constitutional settlement with regards to the Duchy and devolution.

However, we do have another problem in the UK in that the state does not possess a list of the minorities that it currently recognises under the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities. Instead, it prefers to waffle that all a minority has to do is to win a case under the Race Relations Act. All victors under this legislation are subject to the subsequent benefits of the FCFPNM.

Because the English have won a RRA case, even though they are the national majority, with a case law reference, the UK authorities recognise them under a convention that is designed specifically for minorities. At the same time, the Cornish, who have not yet received a RRA case law reference, remain unprotected by the FCFPNM. That is bizarre and perverse!

Libertarian countries all incorporate into their written constitutional texts or their statute law, the principle of "equality before the law". The UK does not and so cheats ALL of its citizens and European Treaty partners in the process!

http://www.cornish-stannary-parliament.abelgratis.com/

Seems the Cornish are fighting for the rights of all UK citizens!

Fulup,

Good to see that you are keeping yourself busy.

In response to your posting I have to mention the equally unique Devon Stannary Parliament.

Ozzie Exile,

Yes you do have a Stannary but with one important difference.

The Duchy of Cornwall Charters of Creation 1337/8 were made equivalent to an Act of Parliament in 1606 by Lord Coke, in the original wording.

This was less than 100 years after the award of the Charter of Pardon in 1508.

Lord Coke would clearly have been aware of the Charter because it was a royal pardon. The Duchy Chaters claim, amongst other things, "The Stannaries", i.e. all of them, including royal pardons. Royal pardons cannot be removed.

The Devonshire Stannary has no equivalent Charter of Pardon and was booted into touch in 1512 by the Supremacy of Parliament Act.

Fulup,

To which Act do you refer.

I am only aware of the 1512 "Strode's Act" which documents parliamentary priviledge and actually derives from the Devon Stannary Parliament gaoling Westminster MP Richard Strode in that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strode%27s_Case

As you can see this act (with its subsequent clarification) only gives Westminster MP's protection for speaking out. This is a totally different thing.

It seems to say nothing about "Supremacy of Parliament", and good old Wikipedia seems to know nothing about any other 1512 Act either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_of_Parliament

Fulup,

For clarity - what I was asking is what 1512 Act of "Supremacy of Parliament" you were referring to?

I know of the previous 1508 Act of Pardon - although I had read that that Act never received royal assent, as King Henry VII died before that could happen.

Hi FLB:

"The Devonshire Stannary has no equivalent Charter of Pardon and was booted into touch in 1512 by the Supremacy of Parliament Act."

Strange place to be doing this, but I'm struggling to find any reference to this "Supremacy of Parliament Act" and the best I could find (but now have lost) suggested the House Of Lords rejected a key 1512 Act anyway.

Any offers about this?

Patrick