h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Having studied astrology for approx. 20 years I may (notice I said "may") be able to shed some light on this subject.

1. Astrology for the masses is bunk! You have to water it down and make it so generic for the masses that it is either worthless or so vague that it applies to everyone! So I don't blame anyone for thinking astrology is lame if they only have magazine/newspaper astrolgoy experience.

2. Astrology - loose discription: basically is this - you know how the moon has a gravitational/magnetic effect on the tides? Just imagine what kind of effect it has on your body - I mean we are what... 80 - 90% fluid? (depends on whether or not you just polished off that pizza!) Well astrologers also believe that the other planets have similar effects on your body, (chemical makeup, magnetic aura - whatever term helps you to envision this better.)

3. Astrology done from your birth date, time, longitude and latitude, etc.(a natal chart) is normally about 70% correct or more. Don't believe me? Have your chart done and delineated by a professional - you will be shocked! It is an excellent tool for studying people's personality traits. When looking at someone's natal chart I can tell things like - health problems and traits that they have or will be prone to have in the future, behavioral problems, vocational tendencies, etc. It is all based on the cycle each planet has as it goes through it's orbit around earth, and how that cycle relates to your chart.

There! Clear as mud?

Generic horoscopes are not watered down, they're complete fiction. Did anyone, anywhere read a horoscope last September that said "Keep out of tall buildings and aeroplanes"? Thought not.

There has been a recent discovery of another planet outside of Pluto. If that plant has been unknown and its effects not considered by astrologists, how can predictions still be accurate?

Astrology schmology. Why don't we all have an argument over who's got the best imaginary friend? It'd be more productive. (with apologies to Toby Hadoke)

When you've studied a subject, it's fair to debunk it. When you've obviously never even looked at it, you don't sound terribly convincing!

I didn't believe in astrology either until I started looking at it to check out whether I was right or wrong. It didn't take long to make me realise that a) real astrology is very complicated and I had to start learning some maths pronto and b)if you take the time and understand that you're talking life blueprints, you have got an awesome tool to work with in your own life.

A thread about imaginary friends is a good idea! I had one who saved my life when I was 17.

(reaction of seething expected here!)

Astrology isn't meant to be able to predict what's going to happen to all the Pisceans/Capricorns etc every day. It's a tool for self-development.

The astrology of families for example, is fascinating. The Royal Family is a case in point. All the connections are there to make it totally impossible that it's a random thing.

And as for the people in the September 11th tragedy, who knows what their individual horoscopes would have said. The collective chart for the day indicated something, somewhere was likely to happen - but that's all it can do.

All the people who were involved in the terrorist action had free will. They could have changed their minds and walked away at any point. They didn't. Their choice. The stars can only indicate what's likely, not what definitely will be.

Meg

Replying to your comment Geoff regarding a new planet discovered. Does this mean that if any new information about how the brain works is discovered that everything we know to date is wrong? Of course not! It either builds on or adds to current knowledge or it's no good! A new planet may give us answers in astrolgy that we didn't have before. Astrology is not a religion, and it's not hocus pocus. It is a science. Just like biorhythms or psychology or psychiatry. The problem is when people start thinking it's a fortune telling tool. Now that is bunk! All astrolgoy can show is tendencies.

I'm sure I don't sound convincing. I wasn't intending to; two simple, off-the-cuff and gratuitous points do not an argument make
aving said that, can those points be answered?

I personally don't give any credence to Astrology, but I'm sure you're right that *real* astrology is more than the mass-market rubbish that gets churned out on a daily basis. Could you then answer two not-so-flippant questions for me please...

1) If, as has been suggested, gravity from celestial bodies is one explanation of the relationship between the stars and our behaviour, has there been any independant studies that haved measured this gravity and established empirically such a relationship?

2) Why are reputable astrologers unable to rid themselves of the twaddle that so obviously belittles their art each morning?

I freely admit my ignorance, and while I'm genuinely interested in the answers to my questions, I must also confess to being here for some fun.

Please don't take me too seriously...


Geoff

Simulpost, guys. I haven't ignored your most recent posts, honest!!

"And as for the people in the September 11th tragedy, who knows what their individual horoscopes would have said. The collective chart for the day indicated something, somewhere was likely to happen - but that's all it can do."

Wow, it can predict that something, somewhere is likely to happen? So it cannot predict what, where or whether this unnamed unlocatable thing will actually happen or not? Powerful stuff indeed!



Ste

Actually - in an individual's chart it can come pretty close! (of course it does not give addresses, names or the winning lottery number...damn!)

"The stars can only indicate what's likely, not what definitely will be"

If free will must be taken into consideration, how can even "likely" come into it?

Well how do we know what your cold symptoms are going to be like? (with or without your free will?) Sure - they are a little different for everyone - but they still have a lot of things in common with other peoples cold symptoms. After watching this stuff for a couple thousand years - patterns are evident. So your runny nose may not last as long as someone elses, or you may or may not sneeze a lot compared to someone else. (Using cold symptoms as an example only!)

How knowledgeable are you on this topic? How much have you studied it? How many natal charts have you done? Do you even know what I am talking about? I don't mind debating this stuff - but I'd like to know that the person I am debating it with has put some effort in to researching it... And isn't just spewing some opinion droned into them by other people.

Do you know more than your "Sun Sign"? Do you have any idea what your ascendant is? Have you ever had your astrology chart done? Can you tell me the difference between horarary, vocational, medical or relocational astrology? Have you ever looked at harmonics? Come on! At least know what something "is" or "is not" before you form an opinion! (This was addressed to everyone above - not any specific individual!) Planetary effects on physical and behavioral patterns - that's what astrology is about. It's not like you're being asked to believe in a religion. You're not actually being asked to believe at all. The proof is there - just start studying it. Do we need to ask you to believe in mathematics? Gravity? Magnetic fields? You probably already consider those elements as facts. Yet those three fields make up astrology, along with thousands of years of human observation.

(Sorry - got on a rant there and lost myself! Apologies to anyone who feel like they just had a flogging!)

My apologies again as this is a conversation where you are supposed to post you thoughts and feelings about astrology, without having to worry about being attacked by some crazed woman in the states that just wants to leave work and go home!

Happy posting!

Michelle...

I said earlier that I freely admit my ignorance, and I asked a couple of questions that were sort of semi-serious. Nobody's answered them yet; do you want to give it a go?


Geoff

Er... seriously. If gravity really does come into it, wouldn't the presence of a very fat midwife at the bedside at the moment of birth have more gravitational influence that all of the planets combined (because of the distances involved)?
Also to us earthlings, the Earth's magnetic field must also seem far stronger than that of any other planet.
Where does the maths come in to it - is that just for working out the positions of the planets among the stars at the moment of birth?

No I didn't! Don't worry. I just haven't really got the hang of all the smileys yet! Let's try one now...

And there's no better place to be for some fun

Your questions...re gravity. There have been plenty of studies of the moon - the tides etc. Also women's menstrual cycles and wolves (though probably not werewolves!). You can find them on the net. There's also some scientific research about the gravitational field of Jupiter going on at the moment, but I'll have to get onto my astrology teacher to find out more.

It 'is' and it 'isn't' gravity that's what works. It's energy fields, which is slightly different. As if the planets do a dance in the solar system which creates a kind of 'energy web' or blueprint of tendencies which are simply automatic.

For example, three times a year, the planet Mercury goes 'retrograde' and communications on earth snarl up even worse than usual. It's quite easy to plot when you know it's going to happen and it always does happen. Just knowing about it means you cover your tracks with letters and emails and allow longer to get to places.

As for 'why do astrologers do the sun sign stuff' I think there are probably three reasons. There's money - it pays - especially now with the premium phone lines...there's also the fact that most of us don't want the deep ins and outs of a full chart - and you couldn't do that in a newspaper. Just to provide a forecast taking into account Sun and Moon signs (which would be marginally more accurate) would need 144 sections a day!

And thirdly, they may do it because it can intrigue people enough to want to investigate more... Usually that's just to find out when they're next going to fall in love or get a better job. But some people do want to know about themselves and the patterns that repeat in their life.

Hope this is helpful - and doesn't read snottily (is there such a word??)

I wonder if this is how you do the grin

YAY!!! Excellent response! (applauds wildly, throws confetti into the air)

"For example, three times a year, the planet Mercury goes 'retrograde' and communications on earth snarl up even worse than usual"

Could you tell me when the next time will be and how I can do a wee experiment to see if what you say is true? Cheers

Aha! A chance to stick in my two penn'orth!

Mercury turns retrograde at 6.50 pm GMT (that's 7.50pm BST) on Wednesday May 15 2002 at nine degrees and 59 minutes of Gemini. Then it (apparently) tracks backwards until Saturday June 8 2002 at 3.11pm GMT (or 4.11pm BST) by which time it has retreated to one degree and 21 minutes of Gemini.

Careful; Mercury is in one of the two signs which it rules (I'll explain if anyone wants to know) and anything to do with travel or communication is likely to be affected. This time around especially air travel or anything which travels through the air - like radio and TV broadcasts, mobile phone stuff, that kind of thing.

As an aside on the 'free will' thing - just how many people really, really use free will? We all think we're doing it but 99 per cent of the time it's conditioned response to training, peer pressure and wht the neighbours will think. Real free will takes effort and courage.

And I'm just as bad as everyone else...!

Exactly! Habits, patterns, cycles - this is what we plod through when we aren't exercising our free will! These are the parts that are "chartable"!