h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Then you'd better hope we (society) don't 'call in our dues', or you're stuffed
No man is an island, and all that sort of stuff

Speaking from personal exspearience ,notice the pear ,as in peers,or persona who mistakenly belief ,through what some might call a lack of self conviction or esteemed for the non religous.
That if you not with us you against us.

Society has been trying to stuff me for years,As for modern western country, "when in rome" Alexandria had electric street lighting almost 2000 years ago, several modern western countries are now turning to medicines used by "native indigenous tribed" have had knowledge of for 15,000 + years.

Celestial maping was happening in the americas at the same time ,
what is this modern society ?

LTP, you lost me there...

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Map ,to aid your way
Your post implied on first reading that "SOCIETY" had a charge or first right to my allegence "dues" being term used.
It also infered a that "modern society" especialy "western" had no place for "outsiders" or non group members.

When in rome quote
A indigenous native, could surive in either such a enviroment ,with skills that are far older than any of those supplied by following
"organised life styles"

OK, yes, that's what I was saying. I believe that the *necessities* of life are so inextricably linked with our society that survival outside it is more or less impossible. Thus you and I (and everyone else) are members of society whether we want it or not. And we are obliged to society for what it provides for us.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

The politics of the individual is only possible inside society.

"Within the choices open to me I am responsible for my own actions" should not be confused with "I am only responsible to myself".

Noggin

I like your acronym!

Acronymous Borg scanning the FFFF for new dromes, his thundering voice echoing over the thread
"They made a picture of me < A1340362 > if you can find it."

Traveller in Time on his head
""

Nephew Who tapping on his consoles
"Acronymous just want you to sign the petition in time. Do not bother about him, it is a nice guy, even usefull at times."

<>

Perhaps the one that decided to allow minority groups the right to exist?

Or the one that allows free speech?

Or the one that raised life expectancies to levels unheard of virtually everywhere else?

Or the one that seems to have decided not to practice war to the destruction of the foe and the sacking of its cities? Even the US, bad as you may think it is, hasn't firebombed Iraqi cities in retaliation for te death of American soldiers, which many societies would do in their situation.

<>

Perhaps this is something that we ought to change.

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And making them safer, more effective, and more available. And finding that some of them are harmful.

Perhaps the one that decided to allow minority groups the right to exist?
As individuals we are all minority groups of one.
Free speech===== infers right awarded or consession when its goes with
outsaying literley what you say costs nothing.

Life expectancies more a result of nateral selection ,and not so hard a working life,along with not being exposed to elements!

Even the US, bad as you may .Naievity is a sad thing, more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
just different properganda, from both sides.

As for medication,Makeing safer, controling distribution more likely, more so in western cultures, just how much safer was thaledimide drugs than predecessor's, many of thes modern safer alternatives ,biochemicaly produce reacting different than organic.!

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Perhaps. Most societies like to crush any group that has religious or political views that differ decidedly from the norm. THe west has gotten frtyher away from that then nearly any other culture.



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Perhaps, but many societies and civilizations don't allow it--speak against the common ideas and you're dead or imprisoned.



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If its natural selection, why isn't it the same in undeveloped nations. As for the other two, the fact that the west has made these and good medical care available to a larger percentage of the population than other cultures seems commendable.



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While many natural supliments seem to have bad side effects and little benefit, how many lives have things like penecillin saved? Well?

And anti-virals improve quality of life/lifespan for people with AIDS, though it seems to spread in non-western societies.

<< I am stunned at the level to which the worship of the individual has been taken.>>
It's monetarism and libertarian economics behind this, I am convinced. We have seen a lot of that in the last 20 years here in NZ.
Didn't Margaret Thatcher famously say "there is no such thing as society?"

To extend the point I've already made: it's almost as if there's no such thing as an "individual", only a "member of society, considered alone". How can you be an individual when you rely on other citizens to provide your home with electricity and gas, telephone and television connections, collect your rubbish, supply and staff the supermarket where you buy your food and drink, stock garages with petrol for your car, and provide the h2g2 website for you to pour forth your opinions?

As citizens, we are all part of the majority; no-one is left out.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

How can you be an individual when you rely on other citizens to provide your home with electricity and gas, telephone and television connections, collect your rubbish, supply and staff the supermarket where you buy your food and drink, stock garages with petrol for your car, and provide the h2g2 website for you to pour forth your opinions?

As to all the above "when in rome" do as the romans

Not every one uses "electric/gas/telephone" in fact most of the above
comes as a servise or tool of great power , if you want some of that.
"you" give something else in return not only that if you where getting your own say "power" firewood for example you would use it wisely acording to how big the forest is.

Yet society as a whole or the section that is selling the "power" as
it starts to dwindle puts up the price or excludes certain groups from haveing it.Society/suppliers then as in the case of wood use a subtitute ,without any thought of consiquences,
where as a individual would!

After a time dependencies grow by then

ltp


I think PC's point that in this circumstance the supplier is acting "as an individual".

"Being an individual" already presupposes society. The point is not that individuals should not have certain rights vis a vis society, but that these rights are produced by society, not by the individual, and maintaining them entails maintaining the web of obligations and duties in society.

Della is right, I think, to point out that monetarism and libertarian economics are bound up with this, because they are the ideological justification for "corporations as legal individuals" to opt out of the maintenance of that web for short term gain.

Noggin

Being an individual" already presupposes society.Yes to a point,on the same premise if i am wrong some one must be right!ITs just a shame that society is yes/no with/against

But as a individual i am yes/no/maybe

once society/religeon accepts and allows for "maybe"..............

But my points being directed at lemmon blossem who i guess is holding a "extremely" biased right or left view depending on which side of discussion that you hold.

Also feeling the need to excersize brain when posting, specialy as lemmon spent all that effort to the three previous posts.

cheers,

PC:

LTP:

So, when one lives in a society, as 99% (or more) of the world's population does, one should do as they do, which is to acknowledge, and abide by, the 'rules' set by one's society?

LTP:

In the UK, my country/society, the vast majority have, use, and value all of these services. Where is it that you refer to, where such things are *not* used by (nearly) all citizens? Is it the country/society in which *you* live?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Extreme? I wouldn't've said so, but (as you imply) that's a matter of opinion. And I must admit to some confusion when you say that LB's views are extreme right *or* left wing: IME, there are generally recognisable differences between the two!

I get the feeling from what you write, LTP, that you're describing societies as *you* think they *should* work, not as they are today in the Real World. Am I right?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Pattern-chaser,

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I was specifically talking about people who give up all personal responsibility to a religious group. Making it possible for someone to say they are, for example, a Christian, while not adhering to any of the rules or teachings of Christianity.

I hadn't been talking about the individual within society.

az