A Conversation for Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jun 30, 2023
Thanks for your encouragement. I hope it doesn't take 42years to get it into the Guide. Counting form 2001, when I started work on it, that would take until 2043, when I will be 95.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
SashaQ - happysad Posted Jul 2, 2023
This is looking good I had a few more questions when I read it again:
"Haydn is also referred to as the father of the symphony" - does this mean that Haydn wasn't the inventor of the symphony, but did popularise the form because of composing such a large number?
I like your descriptions of the Farewell and Surprise Symphonies - could you say a bit more about why you recommend the ones in the 'Other recommended symphonies' list?
Is the Concerti section saying that Haydn only wrote 11 works in the form of Concerto?
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 5, 2023
""Haydn is also referred to as the father of the symphony" - does this mean that Haydn wasn't the inventor of the symphony, but did popularise the form because of composing such a large number?"
He did not invent the symphony, but his work was so influential that many other composers flattered him by adopting his approach.
Haydn wrote many more than 11 concerti, but there was a devastating fire at Esterhazy in the early 1770s. Of his nine cello concerti, only two survived, and one of them wasn't rediscovered until the late 20th century.
I'll see what I can do about the other pieces in the commentary section
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 5, 2023
I've added some material on the symphony
I've amplified discussion of the masses and concerti.
I would like to give a fuller discussion of "The Creation," but think this would be better handled in a separate entry.
The "desert island" link goes into some detail about why one should listen to particular pieces, and probably does a better job than I could. My entry is already kind of unwieldy, and I don't want to make it more so
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 5, 2023
Haydn's oratorios are not covered elsewhere in H2G2. Only four oratorios have their own guide entries: Something by Paul McCartney {"The standing stone," which I had never heard of), "The Armed man" by Karl Jenkins (which I wrote), Benjamin Britten's "War requiem, and Handel's "Messiah." Mendelssohn's "Elijah" is absent. So is Edward Elgar's "Dream of Gerontius." Bernstein's "Chichester pslams" could arguably be called an oratorio, but it is absent. Likewise Vaughan Williams's "Dona Nobis pacem."
A website with an accent on British Isle culture lacks an entry on choral pieces by major British composers (Elgar, Vaughan Williams), and didn't feature a Welsh composer (Jenkins) until the last couple of years....
I hate to link to outside websites for material, but the material here is kind of thin in this area.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 5, 2023
At least "Carmina Burana" is in the edited guide.... Strangely, Wikipedia does not list "The standing stone" among its oratorios
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jul 7, 2023
>>I hate to link to outside websites for material, but the material here is kind of thin in this area.
I've always tried not linking to outside articles, then writing the entries I think are missing.
I wrote an article on Hadyn's "The Creation" for the programme of a recent concert I sang in; I could easily convert it into an h2g2 entry.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jul 7, 2023
It's at A3244574. It could easily be padded out to make a full entry.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 9, 2023
Thank you. That would be a good entry to link to
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jul 20, 2023
You can't put links in Edited Entries to entries that are not edited. So the one about the Creation would have to go through Peer Review and be picked before you could put a link to it in your Haydn entry.
But the link could be added later.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 20, 2023
That would be fine
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
SashaQ - happysad Posted Jul 25, 2023
One more question from me: "Haydn invented sonata form" - is it the case that there has been other pieces called 'sonata' before, but Haydn refined it into the form understood today?
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 26, 2023
I'm pretty sure that sonatas existed -- Corelli wrote many pieces with that name. However, sonata form is a way of structuring music, not a particular genre of music. You use sonata form in writing masses, symphonies, concerti, and actual sonatas. Let me see if there's an entry in H2G2 about sonata form.
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 26, 2023
It's briefly covered here: http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A8379219
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Recommended for the Edited Guide!
h2g2 auto-messages Posted Aug 25, 2023
Your Guide Entry has just been picked from Peer Review by one of our Scouts, and is now heading off into the Editorial Process, which ends with publication in the Edited Guide. We've moved this Review Conversation out of Peer Review and to the entry itself.
If you'd like to know what happens now, check out the page on 'What Happens after your Entry has been Recommended?' at EditedGuide-Process. We hope this explains everything.
Thanks for contributing to the Edited Guide!
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Recommended for the Edited Guide!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Aug 25, 2023
Thank you so much!
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Recommended for the Edited Guide!
SashaQ - happysad Posted Aug 29, 2023
I'm Sub-editing the Entry for you and just had a couple more questions.
What was Haydn's wife's name?
"Saint Nicholas" "Te Deum" in C - am I right in thinking these are Masses?
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Recommended for the Edited Guide!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Aug 30, 2023
His wife was the former Maria Anna Theresia Keller (1729–1800)
Saint Nicholas was a mass. The Te Deum was a setting of the Latin Te Deum text. Lord Nelson was present at the first performance.
Here's a link:
http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Trinitas/TeDeum.html
Congratulations - Your Entry has been Recommended for the Edited Guide!
SashaQ - happysad Posted Aug 30, 2023
Thank you
"Haydn's six late masses" - I see there is:
St Nicholas
Mass in Time of War
Lord Nelson Mass
Creation Mass
Harmoniemesse
One missing?
Key: Complain about this post
A653005 - Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
- 41: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jun 30, 2023)
- 42: SashaQ - happysad (Jul 2, 2023)
- 43: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 5, 2023)
- 44: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 5, 2023)
- 45: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 5, 2023)
- 46: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 5, 2023)
- 47: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 7, 2023)
- 48: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 7, 2023)
- 49: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 9, 2023)
- 50: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 20, 2023)
- 51: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 20, 2023)
- 52: SashaQ - happysad (Jul 25, 2023)
- 53: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 26, 2023)
- 54: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 26, 2023)
- 55: SashaQ - happysad (Aug 22, 2023)
- 56: h2g2 auto-messages (Aug 25, 2023)
- 57: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Aug 25, 2023)
- 58: SashaQ - happysad (Aug 29, 2023)
- 59: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Aug 30, 2023)
- 60: SashaQ - happysad (Aug 30, 2023)
More Conversations for Franz Joseph Haydn, 1732-1809
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."