h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Re your clause below:

4.Only those researchers who have been active and visible participants in the Community for a minimum of three months shall be allowed to nominate and vote for the Arbiters. ("Active and visible" shall be taken to mean participation in fora throughout the community and contributions to the Guide, but no quantitative
standard is to be established.)


I don't think this is at all acceptable, surely all members should be entitled to vote regardless of length of service (This clause would not affect me personally btw). Similarly, i can understand your reasons for having only people who were around pre BBC as nominees for the Arbiter roles however it isn't very democratic and is in fact discriminatory.

Also, I'm not a big fan of the idea of campaigning. To my mind this can easily degenerate into a popularity contest, which is not what you are aiming for at all. Perhaps all nominees are allowed to make one official statement and that is all.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. I have previously expressed my doubts about this scheme, but i am prepared to give it any assistance i can by way of feedback / opinion and wish you good luck.

Linus

Linus -

Sorry: I just now found your post. (Been distracted by recent events...)

Good points, and I do have some explanations/reasons, but I'll need to come back later today or tomorrow when I have more than a second.

Just wanted to finally acknowledge your input. Thanks!

-7rob7

No worries, i figured as much.

Umm, yeah, sorry. Took me a while, too.

Voting restrictions: I can see the point you're making and it's a valid one. But the voting restrictions are similar to the ones in RL. One is not allowed to vote for parliament uness one has reached 21/18/16 years of age. And usually one has to be older still to be elected.
I would not class this as descriminatory, but as a precaution to have only people elected into an office who are fit to serve. (Descrimination would mean that some of the people with equal "relevant factors" are not allowed to run for election because their U##### is even. Here we propose that a/the "relevant factor" is length of participation in H2G2. So from that point of view it cannot be descriminatory to disallow people of shorter standing, because the "relevaant factors" are not equal. )
Also the three months suggested are well after the involvement of the BBC.

As for being allowed to vote: As with RL one does need time to figure out how this community runs/is run and to get to know people. Also, the levels of participation will be rather low. Despite the impressive number of registered researchers, the number of those who use frequent H2G2 frequently is small. If I were to set up 25 accounts and go vote for myself, I might make a huge difference.

Finally, yes there should be no campaigning other than for the proposal itself.

Hope this does alleviate some of your doubts

Tube

I can't think of any club, association, union etc where once you become a member you have to wait a period of time before you can vote.

I understand what you are saying about them not knowing the people they are voting for, but then again i have been here for 3 years and how many people do i know out of 80000 or whatever it is. Probably 100 plus another 100 whose names i have seen around on a regular basis? Voting is also voluntary.

I can see a potential problem with the small number of voters affecting the authority of the position. If someone gets elected with 20 votes how many people will be prepared to accept the umpires decision or refering more directly to your model, how will they know if the selected ajudicator is to their mutual satisfaction if neither party has heard of any of the possible choices, or if one knows them all and the other doesn't know any. As an adjunct to this do you envisage them having to face reelection on a regular basis or is it a 'job for life'. I'm thinking here that if i join after the election do i get to only vote on additional people as required, or do i get a say on how well i think the existing ones have done their job on a yearly (or whatever) basis?

As far as nominations go, i agree that the job requires people who have been around for some time and have a good understanding of how h2g2 works. Finding enough people that are known and respected by the same people may be harder than it sounds. Are there highly respected people out there that i have not come across in my travels. I have no idea.

Can you clarify if , for example, i was to nominate for one of these positions, would i need a seperate persona/ id or would i be expected to resign from being an Ace/scout/any other membership. Also how can i contribute to any of the more frivilous fora in existance and maintain the dignity of the position?

As for your comment: I would not class this as descriminatory, but as a precaution to have only people elected into an office who are fit to serve.

Are you really saying that your elected officials are fit to serve. Where do you live? I'll be right over !!!

apologies for this not being very structured but i have typed this off the top of my head and haven't got time to review it (being hard at work atm)

I can't think of any club, association, union etc where all you have to do is chose a fake name and supply an (anonymous) e-mail address to get in.

"but then again i have been here for 3 years..." Lies! Lies!
On a more serious note, AFAIK there are only different 2000 researchers who visit H2G2 in any given month, thus you would know about 10% of the population. But as you said that took you a long time.

"how many people will be prepared to accept the umpires decision"? If they chose to have the matter settles and they chose to have it settled by Arbiter X, I would assume that they are prepared to accept the judgement. NB that there would be *no* judgement in the first instance of the case, there would be mediation. So in most of the cass there shouldn't be a "decision".

"how will they know if the selected ajudicator is to their mutual satisfaction if neither party has heard of any of the possible choices, or if one knows them all and the other doesn't know any"
There will be an Arbiters Home Page which lists all Arbiters with a link to their personal space. So you can read up on everything the Arbiter ever said on H2G2. That's more than you can say for your local elections. And another reason why the Arbiter should have been here for some months.

"As an adjunct to this do you envisage them having to face reelection on a regular basis or is it a 'job for life'." A job for life, unless the Arbier resigns or if there are complaints about the way s/he conducts mediation/arbitration. Again, all (most of) the prcoceedings will take place in the open light of H2G2, so it should be fairly easy to ascertain when one of the Arbiters mucks up...

"Can you clarify if , for example, i was to nominate for one of these positions, would i need a seperate persona/ id or would i be expected to resign from being an Ace/scout/any other membership. Also how can i contribute to any of the more frivilous fora in existance and maintain the dignity of the position?"
You'd keep your poersona and all memberships you have accumulated, you would just have an Arbiter's badge added to your space and your name would appear on the Arbiter's Page. Also, you would be asked (I think it says to somewhere) not to add "Arbiter" to your name nor sign any posting outside the Proceeding with "Linus - Arbiter" or suchlike. This relative anonymity is intended to make sure that other users clearly understand that your posings are not from a oficial position which yields some power. There have been instances where users felt that they where pushed by a posting from an ACE/Scout to do something or to change an entry in PR according to wishes. There must not be any "I think you are right, X. And you don't have a clue, Y. (signed) ABC, Arbiter". Also, there thus should not be any damage to the dignity of the position.

There is an old German saying which roughly translates as "When God presents someone with an office, he takes his brain"

Have a nice evening!

Tube

Thanks for catching up with this, Tube. You've said it faster and better than I did/could have.

Sorry for the delay peoples,

I have been on baby duty while my wife went away. I will continue the discussion tonight, as long as i don't straight to the pub when she gets home tonight and come home .

I have the rest of the week off anyway so should have plenty of time to pester you a''

Wake-up call: A694118
(Thanks Rob! )

I'm back



I'm no longer an ace or scout btw. how are things progressing?

Welcome back! ... They always come back

We've stopped coughing from dusting the thing off, see the link above. And it's moving again.
I suggest we shift further talk over to there so that we concentrate it in one entry.

no worries. See you there