h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I agree with your order Frankie - perhaps we could have a 'return to researcher' button as well as a 'return to editors' button

Perhaps the researcher could get an email telling them the Sub-Editor has done their job and they should go have a look at such-and-such a place.

Now *that's* a good point! As a researcher you'd really see the progress of your entry!

That would be a solution. The thing is to let the reseacher(s) see the edited entry before the subeditor loses control over it.

(This is an old problem by the way, not something that's been introduced by the new system, but it's one that can be more easily addressed now)

Me too, Fragilis!

(Means that I also think that this would be a good idea...)

Frankie Roberto said: "You're right, it only pops up on their page when you return it, which is bad."

Actually, this is intentional! In this way the Sub can make the individual decision whether to involve the author during the subbing process, or not. Some Subs want the author to be involved from the start, some want to do their first draft before telling the author, and some don't really want to involve the author at all.

We respect all these ways of working, so we have given each Sub the choice. Subs can get authors involved if they want by posting to the author's Space - simple! Given this, do we need to add all the email/notification suggestions above?

I don't think so... but I could be wrong.

Ah, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

It's good that the sub can decide if and when to involve the author. The part of it which I don't like is that you have contact the original author manually. It's like an invitation to nitpick every change that was made, which isn't the desired effect.

It would be nice if there was another button labelled 'Submit to author' or so which would cause the entry to pop up on the researcher's space, just as it does now when the entry is submitted to the in-house Editors. You could do your editing and when that's finished let the researcher see it while you could still have the possibility to do last minute changes. That way the Sub have the choice just as you described, but not manually.

Just an idea.

Unfortunately, with the way we designed the system, that's going to be really hard, but I'm not convinced it's necessary anyway. Given that Subs get batches of four entries, it is *not* a lot of work for Subs who want to involve authors to drop them a message (that's four messages every four weeks).

I also think that this would enable Subs to build up a really positive authos/Sub relatiohsip, which is a *good* thing. Compare:

* When the Sub clicks on the 'Contact Author' button, a link to A123456 'Ragamuffins' pops up on the author's Space. The author clicks on it, to find some typos and something they've decided should be rewritten. The author isn't impressed, so (s)he clicks on the Sub's link and posts a complaint to the Sub to say there are errors. That's possibly a good way to get off on the wrong foot.

* Alternatively, when the Sub gets the batch, (s)he posts a message to each author's Space along these lines: "Hi XXX, I just thought I'd let you know that I've been given your excellent entry on 'Ragamuffins' to edit, ready for the Edited Guide. I'm just about to start work on the 'recommended' copy of the entry at A123456, so if you have anything else you'd like to add, now's the time - I'm hoping to finish it off within the next couple of weeks, as I've got deadlines to meet if I'm to get it out on time! If you see anything that you'd like to comment on, do let me know, but bear in mind that I'm using that A number as a place to store my work in progress, so if you do see any typos or mistakes, that doesn't mean they're going to get through to the final version. Hope to hear from you, even if it's only to say that there's nothing more to add. All the best, Mark"

I know which I'd rather get, and I think the latter will engender friendly relations between Subs and authors, which is a really good thing. And if you're the sort of Sub who doesn't want to talk to authors at all, you can take that approach, too.

I do see your point, SchrEck, but having thought it over, I quite like having to force personal contact into the subbing scheme. Having it pop up automatically on the author's Space without any personal contact from the Sub will only (IMHO) enable criticism of the Sub, rather than building up a great relationship.

I could be wrong, though!

A well argued point Mark!

I agree with much of what you say, and having learnt from the previous entry, have taken to letting the author know I'm editing their piece before I start so they can see the progress I'm making and make comments.

The only problem with the current system is having the researcher complain when it's too late for you to do anything, which puts you in a bit of an awkward situation as you can't just make the change immidietly but have to send it though e-mails etc.. The researcher sees the entry just as it's inbetween the editor and the staff, which is where the conflict can arise.

I think contacting the researcher before is the best way to solve this problem, as you suggest, but it's not entirely problem free. Maybe if the entry popped up on the researcher's page when it appears on the front page it would reduce problems, as any typos, etc.. are more likely to be ironed out by the staff by then.

Of course, ideally we shouldn't be making typos or silly mistakes..

Anyway, to end on a postive note, I do think the new system is a big improvement!

I don't know - we have problems from both ends of the stick as subs. I personally like to involve the author if I need to make a pressing change (not a matter of simple punctuation) that would require a substantial alteration; for example if *gasp* I find (what I believe to be) a factual error. I do that because I know that I would like to be consulted first if that was my position. I've got to say that sometimes I get irritated when I find several errors introduced into a piece, but a) I'd feel bad about telling the sub in the first place in case I appeared pushy and resistant to change, and b) I can't tell what's happened to my entry until it's too late to do anything about it. As subs, we can post to the subs mailing list and request changes of the sub in question/ the Powers at the Towers, but I think a lot of authors who aren't volunteers don't know where to go if they find themselves in this situation, because as it stands there is no real encouragement of contact between sub and author, and a researcher may feel (as I would!) that they are being difficult or unusual in their request. I understand that some subs don't like to involve the author, but perhaps it could be emphasised further on the subs page - or at Peer Review - that we *are* there to be contacted, and that we will be amenable to questioning.

Sorry - I'm feeling terribly verbose this evening...

Thanks for your answer, Mark. I think I'll try this out and drop a note to the researchers of the next articles I'm subediting. I'll post a note to this forum when I get some reactions, either friendly or rather unfriendly ones. Having had another thought about it, I expect friendly ones. Let's see...

Now to something completely different: How the hell did you come up with this 'Ragamuffin' subject? I remember having read Professor Charivari children's books as a child with ragamuffins as the ultimate enemies of mankind, trying to destroy the earth.

Gosh - I have no idea! It was just the first thing that came into my head.

No doubt that speaks volumes for my head...

When I want to contact the author, I usually post a message to them at the bottom of the PR thread which is attached to their version of the entry. This kills two birds with one stone: I get their attention, and I automatically subscribe to that PR thread, which makes it fewer clicks away for me.

My favorite benefit of the new subbing system, btw, is that I can still easily sub when I don't have a home computer from which I'm working. I've done my last batch variously at friends' houses and in random Internet Cafes. This probably isn't an issue for most Subs, but I love being able to edit on the go without having to carry floppy disks around (floppy disks are SO twentieth century !)

GTB

Yeah that'll be easier for me too editing between home and uni

Hi,

as promised, I contacted the authors of the last four entries I subbed, by leaving a message on their personal spaces. I had quite positive and friendly responses from all of them within two days. In one case the author asked to have some more information to be added (he forgot to mention it in the first place), there were some smallish corrections in two cases, and the fourth one was OK as it was. As I hadn't returned the entries to the editors at that time, the desired changes could be made without bothering the Italics.

So, a rather pleasant experience, just as Mark predicted. Any comments?

I just have had a very positive experience corresponding with the author of two entries that I'm currently subbing. The entries are on theoretical physics topics that are *just* over my head, but they are well written and I've been learning all about antimatter. I was stymied by an ambiguity in the language used, so I dropped a note on the author's personal space. He quickly replied with a couple of reworded paragraphs which really strengthened the entry.

OTOH, I left a note for the author of another entry I'm subbing, and got no reply. Whatever. That entry was in pretty good shape anyway, except for the punctuation (grumble, grumble)

GTB