h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My way to do it is just to make clear that youre not playing games once the partner attempts to. After a couple of occurences, they just fade (IMH experiance)


Dancer

I found that very hard to do. But it surely is the best method!

So...what's happening to this entry then? Are you going to make it a uni project or what?

Well, I'm not sure.

Go on Wonko, you know you want to reaaaally

FABT

Ok, I have read the entry but not all of the backlog.

It seems to me that this entry is about two different things.

Firstly 'Games People Play' - and I assume you have read Eric Berne's book on the subject. It was first published in 1962, it was an introduction to Transactional Analysis for the lay reader. But it is
still a work which has not been bettered on the subject. (So far as I am aware. If anyone else knows of a more recent and / or better book about Games, will they please let me know. I would be very grateful.)

The second thing this entry is about is how to avoid pain in relationships.

These two things do intersect, but there is more to relationships than games, and there is more to games than relationships. And if the article is to continue to be about both games and relationships, then it should acknowledge that there is more to both of them than this.

Berne mentions but does not explore 'good games'. The reason he does not explore them is that most of his work is based on therapy, and people who are emotionally healthy don't get analysed - but they may still play games.

I cannot remember Berne's definition off the top of my head, but I remember that a game is a series of transactions involving two or more players with a pay-off. Structured transactions without payoffs are described as passtimes.

It IS possible to stop playing games through an act of will. My ex read GPP on my recommendation, and we managed to build a largely game-free relationship. We kept the good games, (What do you want for Christmas, to remember and name one at random), but largely managed to ditch the bad games. (We split up for reasons unrelated to games, and are now on the same sort of terms as each of us are with our siblings - a lot of history, a lot of affection, but not much to do with each other on a daily basis.)

In Berne's definition, each game has an anti-game. The example I remember from the book was of someone who comes to a party, trashes your house, and then apologises. The pay-offs are to apologise and receive forgiveness, and to be outraged and magnamanous. The anti-game is to say 'trash my house, injure my pets, do what you like - but don't apologise'. So both parties have to forego the pay-off, which requires a considerable act of will. This is far more effective (and harder to do) than to just say 'this is a game, and I am not playing it any more'. Incidentally I have personal experience of this game, I had a friend who played it hardball.

The section of the entry which describes saying the same things over and over again, and things which you don't mean and wouldn't 'normally' say is a reasonable description of how it feels to be caught up in a game-playing cycle.

The important point is that both (or all) parties must play the game for the game to be played.

As I have indicated, relationships end for a lot of reasons, and I would go so far as to say that game-playing may be no more than a mechanism for causing some relationships to deteriorate, not the actual reason for the deteriation.

Games are fascinating. In my opinion they are also, ultimately, unavoidable. We need games to structure our relationships at work for example, and visits to the hairdresser, time spent with our in-laws, and other unavoidable interactions.

So my advice is to look at games within relationships, and yes, I can and will provide examples. And my other advice is to read both of Berne's books: 'Games People Play' and the rather flawed 'What do you say after you say Hello?' before doing so.

I should mention that psychological thinking has moved on in the 40 years since the book was published, and transactional analysis is now seen as only one of the ways of analysing the interactions between people.

Good luck!

Ben

Dancer

(whispers). um. sorry.

B

Nonono, it's a good thing , though I disagree with some, but I already expressed my oppinion, and it is that games are most avoidable! I couldn't live with a gameplaying partner, wouldn't!


Dancer

Very intereting, but two logical mistakes:

1. Your prospective partner does not have to be like their parents. Studies show that peers are more important, and also they may be in revolt against their parents (like me).

2. You don't have to be like their parents at all, so there may be a completely (and benign) relationship dynamic going on.

Relationships (and identities) are far more complex than you suggest. So thumbs down for misleading oversimplification, no doubt based on something in your own experience.

Make that a completely different relationship dynamic. Add to that a genetic difference (ee, she's just like Auntie Kate!) and an environmental difference, (e.g. London rather than Cleethorpes). And a sexual difference (e.g. being gay when your parents may not have been). Still thumbs down, I'm afraid.

Hi Ben, hi Dancer,

many thanks for your nice comments! Well, the topic "games" is an interesting one and I've read the book. Ben, maybe we could write an entry together how to stop playing games, I think the both of us have some experience with that.

To my entry: the aim of my entry is to provide an early warning indicator to young people. You know, you're dating someone, get to know her/his parents and wonder whether she/he is the right one for life! Its a simple rule of thumb that my entry gives here, possibly saving you some 20 years of valuable lifetime.

It's not how to repair a car and its inner workings, but how to avoid buying the wrong one by looking at the dealer. Yes, you might miss an rare opportunity, but better save than sorry when it comes to your life.

And it's based on my own experience.

Ah. In that context I understand what you are doing.

In that case let me recommend the second of Berne's books 'What do you say after you say hello?' which is two books in one, really. My guess is that he had written a book on life-scripts and his publisher wanted a book on social interaction, so he tacked a couple of chapters about that on the front, and gave it a cute title, and the publisher did not read the rest of the book. Just a guess.

I take Grimethorpe's point about peer groups. But I also agree with the Jesuits - whoever had the child for the first seven years has formed the child for life. Well, almost. The teen years are formative too.

We have far less control over ourselves and our destinties than any of us would like to think.

Do I think looking at the parents is a good rule of thumb for predicting the future?

Ummm... Maybe...

Keep games out of it, though. Or make games just a paragraph in the rest of the piece. (Sorry to be harsh). It IS worth saying that when you have children of your own you find yourself saying exactly the same things in exactly the same voice that your parents said to you. The programming goes deep. (It would be interesting to know what happens with a woman who is raising a child to speak her second langauage - does she translate the programed comments into her second language?)

And it is also worth saying that we learn how family interactions work from those who raise us. Some families have anger as their habitual negative emotion, others have frustration, others have sulks, others have violence, and so on.

I think your rule of thumb is a good one, though Grimethorpe is right about peer groups. (Though who we are at 10 has a significant impact on the peer groups we choose at 14).

Unfortunately when you are completely loved-up, just taking a look at someone's family is not going to be enough to put you off someone. Maybe falling in love with someone 'unsuitable' is a form of social marrying-out, to ensure that people and society do eventually change.

Ben

Hi lovely Ben,

I'll rewrite my entry according to your suggestions. But I'd like to keep the games part as a central thing, as it's the main visible indicator.

Well, you are so right in that we are preprogrammed and I think it's hard to change that as an adult,, although not impossible.

Well, let's continue in a few days when I've done it.

Your thankful Wonko

Any progress on this one yet?

Mikey

Hi Mikey, I haven't seen you around for a while, though that may be that I have been off line for great chunks of time. How are you?

Back to the subject: Wonko and I talked about this and another entry about women via email for a while, and he said he was going to re-think them. I am afraid I gave the poor man a fairly significant reading-list, so I may have put him off the idea completely, which would be a shame, because there is the kernal of a good entry in here somewhere. Or possibly two good entries, as I said further up the conversation.

Happy New Year

Ben

Hi Ben, hi Mickey,

best wishes to all of you!!! Don't worry about me, Ben, you're doing good things to me.

Well, I'll do the changes as soon I've got a little spare time.

Your Wonko

Hi Wonko, just wondering how this one's getting along


whisky

Well, sorry, but I didn't have any time recently.

Greetings,
Wonko

No problem, I wasn't trying to harrass you or anything, just wandering around neglected PR threads making sure the authors were still around

Thanks for answering


whisky