h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I got a question for the po powers that be...

Instead of ask askin the mod team to see if a post is bad(hiddenen stuff) y cant these po posts be sent to random users to seek their views rather than just a few ????...maybe this will work better/FAIRER !!

how about if the posted is displayed and ppl can vote if they think its bad or good. and if the moderator gets ppl opinions wrong to often they should be relieved of their duty

BB....Votes can be fiddled,,,random users abetter choice me thinks...

but if we had say a page where hidden and removed posts are displayed and the moderators name at the side ppl can vote and we can count up how many ppl agree and disagree

why have names been mentioned ?? i wasn't going to come back to this thread but it seems a bit unfair on the people mentioned

Star Fleet

I.V., yes the wording on the complaint seems to be quite crucial (knowing which moderator psychological buttons to press).

The first line external moderators are not supposed to go by who made the complaint. This could be true but at least one person was told by the staff that their complaints would be ignored (not exactly funny if supposed to be a joke and it didn't look like one anyway). There is also the distinct possibility that even the external moderators do just get used to passing or failing complaints by or against certain people though. It is not as if they don't have memories.

I am quite certain the top level of moderation being the staff do go by names though. There are those whom they want to believe despite the evidence and other experts/witnesses being against them. I've seen that several times in various people's cases. There are also those whom they are very happy to have people attack judging by the statements they make which match these sentiments - again many cases. The pattern seems to be to support certain "underlines" (typically volunteers, some long-term researchers or other staff/friends) regardless of the truth of the situation. That's the main way in which they are visibly unfair.

Oh gosh - I am not able to spend all day in this thread so I'm going to keep this as brief as possible.

All notions of independent companies et al working to moderate this site are very interesting but unfortunately these require resources we do not have. The system we have at the moment very charitably gives Researchers the right to complain about decisions. Other sites just ban them without questioning them. Inevitably this freedom is used to complain about the relatively generous system - hence this thread.

I said (to repeat myself *again*) that it was *not* easier to be impartial, just less time-consuming in the long run as being unfair is counter-productive.

<>

I would like to stress that it is not always as simple as 'allowing' posts to be Yikesed - as I have said before, not all of the posts reach us. Secondly, I consider it a rather low tactic to judge the whole of my sincerity on whether one of your own posts passes or fails but the post will be passed or failed according to whether it is judged to be in breach of the House Rules. Sorry but that's the way it is. Sadly, so many of these issues are complex and we can't make everyone happy.

I have already given this thread more time than is probably fair so I am going to concentrate on one of the bits of 'evidence' you mention. You have referred to two ACES, both of whom apologised profusely for their behaviour. Instead of gracefully accepting these apologies you continue to complain about them and instead of concentrating on the issues you use the word 'nasty' yet again to describe their actions. There is a definite problem with tone here and I can't help thinking you do not come out of this well, which is a real shame as you do so much to help so many people elsewhere on this site.

Boriyani
Re: post1443

sometimes a post could 'out of context' be considered offensive or not depending on how its put for example if a post is covered in smileys it could be viewed as a joke, but is it? viewing individual posts doesnt really, unless its very clearly offensive, tell you whats going on, whoever is doing the modding should be looking at the bigger picture and not judging a post by who sent it or how well they have worded it regardless of any given situation or because something about the posters been put in the aces forum thus making their decisions biased..think SEF may have covered some of that too though

Starfleet
Re: post 1445

names have been mentioned in example, have you actually read all of it or are you just versing an opinion through the mention of a few names?, they have also been mentioned when people in this thread have contridicted themselves and it has been pointed out to them, however, i have to say i agree with you to a point, a lot of dodgy people have jumped in and out of this thread on the attack or defensive depending on your take of things but those that are still hiding things i note have gone very quiet recently, perhaps they are afraid to back up their pals as they usually do in light of previous threads?! which is actually typical and just goes to show their characters for what they really are

"i wasnt going to come back to this thread"

its amazing just how many times that phrase has now been quoted in this thread

<>

I actually think that letting bygones be bygones and deciding not to be drawn into a debate which has, at many points, been very critical of certain individuals, actually shows strength of character.

Mina loved this site enough to come and work for it. She has now moved onto another job and doesn't work for h2g2 anymore. She tried to get this across by having a personal page and her italic page. Once she left h2g2 she didn't use her italic page anymore. She has been continually accused of still working for h2g2, so she changed her personal pages name to Ideno, to try to stop anymore confusion.

She is still being attacked for no reason.

For the record I have got annoyed with he italics at times, they are not perfect, the way this site is run is not perfect. But its bloody good, and I want it to remain so. It will be better when Mina comes back to the site.

As for moderation, we are all moderators. When moderators were employed by the site, they were people who didn't use it, to prevent bias. Italics have never been moderators, just because they are italics. We all have the opportunity to use that function.

Please accept that Mina does not work for h2g2 anymore, and is not a member of staff anymore. Just move on, let it drop.

Getting bitchy about the detail isn't helping anything, this point scoring is getting a bit much. Move on, produce something positive, write an article, anything, just leave these past mistakes in the past.

Natalie
Re: post 1447

"oh gosh - i am not able to spend all day in this thread so im going to keep this as brief as possible"

oh thanks, should we feel grateful cos you pop in and out and only really respond to SEF by saying she is, in so many words, just moaning? if my character is defamed or i am slandered id be moaning too at the fact that your aces have once proven wrong only begrudgingly appologised,
and still you do nothing but harp on about SEF's attitude and 'tone', what about the attitude and tone and behaviour of the aces and staff on this site?! remember the point of this thread or is this just about SEF with you? (i am not saying that with tone i am just reading from your posts and wondering as are others)

"i have already given this thread more time than is probably fair"

have you? have you taken on board the comments of not just 1 or 2 but a lot of people? will you be taking any action? define how much time is fair, surely to get all the issues resolved no matter how long it takes, to get things right in a community site is fair? all i see you doing is only responding to selective posts, though i understand you prefer to operate behind the scenes, however, since you will not answer specifics/individual cases on site and you say you will, (according to emails off h2g2), but in truth h2g2 doesnt so i dont see you doing anything, the email blatantly lies, else why have you not responded to any of my mail in months? obviously You probably havent seen all i am referring to but dont tell people on site that you will respond in email to queries when you dont

oh 1 more thing, you said 2 aces appologised profusely for their behaviour..profusely? did they? must of missed that though it doenst count for much if the appology is insincere
so now they have appologised, that makes it right what they have done?, so if i jump to the wrong/right (im not saying 1 way or other, ive learnt on h2g2 it is best if I keep my thoughts to myself)!, conclusions about you and attack you all over this site, then later appologise sincere or otherwise, would that be 'ok' too? of course it wouldnt! or is SEF's reputation/character less important? im using you as an example but the point is valid

Natalie
Re: post 1447

oh my mistake, i do appologise, i thought you was ignoring all my points/questions

"strength of character" lol you are giving the impression that you do not know whats going on with relavance to issues raised in this site, (how true that might be i do not know, only you could know this, but to not know whats going on in the site that you help run is not necessarily something to be proud of either), you do not acknowledge things when they are clearly evident, when cases have been proven, you say it is a strength of character? to the fact that the aces/staff concerned have gone quiet or to the fact that rather than explain the obvious abuse of their badge in there actions, is this something you and this site are proud of? maybe its its me thats misunderstanding your posts? i cannot believe you actually condone the behaviour of certain individuals though?

Regarding Moderators' emails to modded posters...

Perhaps it is time they tell the poster why _exactly_ the post was seen as breaking the <./>HouseRules</.> instead of the vague standard message they send... Then the poster would have a chance to challenge the decision by explaining why they said it or what they really meant etc... or _at least_ they will be given a chance not to repeat the same mistake...


Ref: Posting 1444

>but if we had say a page where hidden and removed posts are displayed and the moderators name at the side ppl can vote and we can count up how many ppl agree and disagree<

And we would be unfortunately back to square one with allegations of people being told to vote for or/against some of these posts etc.. etc...


loup.dargent

IV, we do our best.

It is becoming increasingly clear that nothing I can do, save agreeing precisely with you on which posts should be passed and failed (as well as forcing people who have actually very decently apologised to repent for all eternity), is going to lead to a conclusion that is satisfactory to you.

We do not have an infinite amount of time to spend on everything.

I don't expect you to be grateful to me for spending time on this thread - I was merely trying to point out that I would rather spend time on more constructive things.

As for my responding to selective posts - I could have the same gripes about issues I've raised. It's the easiest thing in the world to sustain a negative argument by focussing on isolated sections and by resorting to rhetoric. But it all gets extremely tiresome and repetitive.

This post has been removed.

Natalie
Re: post 1455

i have not asked you to simply agree with me about anything, im asking you/staff to look into things rather than say 'we do our best' or 'we are only human', not everybody on this site is behaving within the rules and if you are condoning it, then it would 'appear' you are not bothered, that is not to say im accusing you of anything specific, just listen, think about whats being said and take a look around you, if looking into some of the issues raised in this thread, and/or looking back at past mistakes
can help this site, why am i asking for so much? even an acknowledgement of the email i was actually asked to send h2g2 would at least show willing

"we do not have an infinite amount of time to spend on everything"

yeah ok, so why not start by looking at facts presented to you/h2h2 in that email?, had I been allowed to names names i completely agree with hindsight that would not have gotten this thread very far, but it was sent to h2g2 so why not take on board that things are not as they seem on this site..this isnt just me saying this now, its not a personal vendetta because i have had some posts yikesed, (actually it was alot of posts yikesed but im only complaining about the fact not all of them were justified, those that were im not disagreeing with), but as ive just seen Loup say, to quote 'some researchers might find your post offensive' and to then say if you wish to reply is misleading

getting things right on this site, OUR site, is constructive

If things were started when she was Mina BBC then maybe she wished to continue and finish the work using the same name, so as not to confuse people unnecessarily.

The point is, drop it.

Stuff happened, apologies were made, move on.

I have been insulted by people on this site, you just have to forget it, and move on. Like life, you can't continually bring up the same subject again and again, always demanding new apologies.

This site for all non-italics is a hobby, its here for fun, entertainment etc. If it becomes other than that, then maybe you are expecting something from h2g2 which it can never give.

- Ironic?