h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

FB

Oi, I hope not!

So do I!

I *love* my 'Blue Screen of Death' - even though I can't see the new smileys.

I imagine that this is a proposal for a new skin, which will replace brunel as the default skin. I don't see why the other skins should be taken away.

It's possible, though, that they could be taken out of the URL, and thereby be made accessible only to logged in researchers (using cookies). This would mean that the site wouldn't be serving identical content from multiple different URLs.

I'm not sure whether this would be a good thing.

TRiG.

I hope so, TRiG. I've used Goo since I joined and would hate to have to revert to a 'generic' skin.

I use "Plain" with my own stylesheet. I'm already denied the new "Video content", but for the additional speed and convenience I can live with that. I don't like the idea of taking the skin out of the URL because then it becomes impossible to make skin-specific links to demonstrate unfortunate colour combinations to newbies etc. (And all the existing skin-specific links need to be maintained in case the author *intended* a link to be viewed in a specific skin...)

It might only justify the investment if there's a return on maintenance costs (ie they would retire old skins).

There are lots of hard-coded URLs to existing skins out there, so I guess they'd have to somehow redirect these to the new skin.

I know the idea is for it to be more like the new BBC homepage (which I love btw) so would it be as customisable?

If so, we could probably have a good stab at creating our own skins relatively easily. Alabaster would be pretty simple to recreate.

Actually havinga single but customisible skin would be very
: I'm thinking one when even a fairly non-coding/programming expert could tweek the skin to move things about, say have their convos at the top and then there PS message centre/journal come before the text of their own personal space (lets face it you don't really need to constantly read your own PS) But with some common aspects having to be retained within the 'flavours' of the same skin in order to retain the sites overall appaearance (E.G., the BBC and H2G2 links always being present in the same place no matter how you rearrange the other aspects.....).
Actually that would be quite useful looking down the road to thinks like more embeded pictures/AV/Audio content; Each individual user could set to display or not, or automatically play or not automatically play embeded content... (which is a bit useability accessibility thign; Active media that plays immediately without any user intervention on entring a page/guide entry page, is a big no no for accessibility (why I refuse to use myspace for example))

As we've said in the other threads (we're going through them in order, so sorry if we're a bit repetitive! ) we think that in order to comply with BBC Guidelines we will indeed have to retire the older skins. We don't think we gain anything on maintenance costs (though we like the idea of getting a deposit back ) - it's mainly an issue of having the same visual language and being accessible.

We are hoping for a level of customisation, but it depends on how far our resources take us. It would be really nice for people to be able to alter text and background colours at least and there seems to be a good accessibility argument for this. (We also want to retain the 'quirky' element). These are good ideas and though we'll have to manage our expectations, we will be passing them forward.

Oh yes - immediately-playing media (a la myspace) is maddening, isn't it?) None of that for us!

So no more gloriously classically beautiful Alabaster? The nicest looking site on the internet.

FB

Waaaaaaaay back, before "Brunel", the promise was that we would at the very least have a large selection of skins, ideally with the option to create and submit our own. That vision seems to have been quietly forgotten, with every step since being towards homogenising the "look and feel" of everyone's page.

But, at least in the pre-BBC days, a large part of the joy of h2g2 was the immense variety of really *ugly* user pages. Don't let that fall by the wayside for the benefit of some corporate drone's "vision".

Hello Peet,

We understand what you mean and thank you for this feedback, but a lot of things have changed and it really isn't anything to do with any 'corporate drone's 'vision''. We want the site to be as accessible as possible and we also want to be seen as a contemporary BBC site with an at least fairly uniform look and feel. The current skins don't really achieve these aims. We can't just go off on our own tangent - if the site is to survive we have to ensure that any redesign stays within the guidelines.

However, we're hoping there will be a small level of customisation, with more in future iterations.

I'll still miss the classic beauty of alabaster (plus the lo-fi look which isn't so noticable at work )

FB

"we also want to be seen as a contemporary BBC site with an at least fairly uniform look and feel."

But once you go down that road aren't you permanently locking yourself into the whims of the BBC "front page" designers? Every time they have a notion to "freshen" the site my shuffling everything around and adding an extra couple of clicks between you and what you actually use the site for just to syphon some eyes onto their intermediate pages in the hope you might look at something else while you're there you'll be obliged to d*ck around (technical term - honest!) with your layout too.

As long as you have multiple layouts and let the *user* decide how they want to see their data you shouldn't feel the need to follow this week's/month's/year's fashion.

I can understand creating a new "BBC skin" to use as the default view if you're not logged in, or as an *optional* skin, but this plan runs completely against the grain of everything I've loved about h2g2 in the last ten years or so.

("my shuffling" = "by shuffling" )

Poor ickle Alabaster

Hello all,

I'm having another bash at unelvising. I'm really excited at the prospect of a redesign for h2g2. Not only is it long overdue for the BBC to splash a bit of cash on the place in a visible way, but I actually think this is an opportunity for h2g2 to (finally) gain from things that have been done elsewhere at the BBC.

If you're worried that the uniqueness of h2g2 will go away, I'd thoroughly recommend going for a hunt around some of the homepages that have been built for other BBC destinations using the same templating system. Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/,http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/ and http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/ to see how, although all are recognisably BBC, each site does have loads of scope for individuality, especially through the use of template images.

In the medium term, using the new template system may also open up a number of opportunities for h2g2 to link in with other BBC content, making use of it to enhance the reader experience by being able to bring up related programmes and similar things.

Change is always scary, especially when it's still unknown. If this change goes well, it could be amazing.

Looking like a part of the BBC's website and fitting in with its rules and regs could also make h2g2 a talking point in a positive way in other parts of the BBC. Despite the great use that the BBC has put the DNA platform to, I've always thought that institutionally it never quite 'got' the point of h2g2. This does genuinely in my mind represent an opportunity to change this.

I'm going to stay vaguely on-topic (for a change) and put some more thoughts down where they are being specifically discussed. But seriously, I think this is an amazing opportunity, and one that I hope we can embrace!

It could be great *if* it is additional to, rather than a replacement for, the existing skin structure.

One more option = Good.

Four fewer options = Bad.

Peet, I sympathise. I've personally got a dual allegiance to Alabaster and to Brunel. However, the skins are now ancient and the resources involved in getting any new functionality to work are greatly increased by maintaining loads of different skins.

Personally, I'd be delighted if there could be a 'new goo' and similar, that gave some of the look and feel of the old skins to a common layout. Something a bit more than a colour change, but still with one layout so that new things can be coded once.

When the Italics said that this change is needed for h2g2 to survive and prosper, it's the second bit that made me excited. Obviously, there's no guarantee of future resource for development. I just have the suspicion that there's more of a chance if there are a lot fewer hurdles to such development!

I was quite shocked when I realised how many years that h2g2 has spent, in technical terms, 'just ticking over'. I don't mean the human contribution, but more the way in which those contributions are used.