h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi there, Beka. You seem to assume that science can, in principle, explain everything. That ain't so. Science only deals with the material world of matter, energy, space and time. So, when we ask why these things exist, the explanation is going to have to be in some other kinds of terms; unless you think that they are self-explaining or self-causing!

These 'other kinds of terms' can't therefore be scientific ones. So science, by definition, isn't capable of explaining itself and its own domain. I'll leave you with that thought for now.

toxx

oh god is there

Hi Math. Nice to be able to post again. Much as I agree with the rights of the workers to withdraw their labour, isn't this 'universal pre-mod' stratagem a form of sabotage? Surely, by default our posts should appear until/unless something goes wrong with the system. None of us is so frail as to be harmed by ill-chosen words temporarily remaining on the board due to lack of moderators. Doh!

toxx

Hi Chris. (Strange pseudonym there. Still, I can't talk!).



The easy answer is 'the one that there is' who calls Himself 'I am that I am'.

Croeso yourself. You'll find a few of the Welsh persuasion here. I might even become a convert myself.

toxx

which one ? god is all around us in everything we do ,every place we go , we are just to busy with everyday life to noice gods beauty .

Test Post

Hi Toxx,

Everyone on pre-mod? I wasn't, perhaps a blue helmet is useful after all?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Toxxin - science can explain everything, and if it can't be explained by science, it doesn't exist. Isn't that one of the principles of athiesm or not believing? I'm not saying that matter, space, energy and time are self causing, just that we don't know what caused them or why they exist (or even if 'why' matters at all). Just because we don't know why something happens doesn't mean we should leap at the easiest and best all-encompassing answer, ie there is a god controlling everything.

Math, the whole site was on pre-mod! Your post was one of the first after things got back to normal. Next week they are doing a 48 hour strike.

Yesterday I dowloaded the whole thread in 200 post blocks so that I can search more easily.

alji

'Toxxin - science can explain everything'

No! Science can't explain everything, but it has a go at doing it with some success.

alji

Replacing 'easiest' by 'simplest', isn't this precisely what science attempts to do?

<..., ie there is a god controlling everything.>

So if you're correct, ....... .

Actually, this isn't what I'm arguing. It's too much of a leap. I'm suggesting that we can apply metaphysical thinking and other philosophical approaches to the question.

Science can't explain what it is like to have conscious experiences. Perhaps these don't depend on the existence of material things. Then, when we run out of material explanations for things (eg; Why did the chicken cross the road?), we have to resort to explanation in terms of purposes and intentions - conscious states.

Sure, science is extremely effective within its own enormous domain. I'm constantly impressed by what it achieves and its technological applications. As an aside, I recently looked at the Bad Astronomy site mentioned by alji. In the blog is the first ever photograph of an extra-solar planet and its star. The picture was taken last year, but not shown to represent a planetary system until a few days ago.

toxx

< There have been more frequent and vicious wars in the last 100, Atheist-led, years than in any other previous century.>

I guess I was out that day in history class, who are these atheist leaders you speak of?

Here's a history question: what was it that prompted the very first jihad?



I would state this differently, that wars are fought by and for the rich using the poor to do the fighting.

< Religion has been used to motivate the poor to fight, or justify these wars, but it is not the cause.>

I was IN class the day we learned about the Spanish Inquisition, but my recollection of that age is not what it used to be. I also recall some group evicerating Jerusalem but I need to research these events.


What does this mean, if you can say?



Beauty? Well let's see, what "beautiful" things do I notice daily...war, poverty, murder, starvation, physical and mental abuse, child abuse, animal abuse, homeless people, shootings of innocent bystanders, diseases...yeah there's some beauty out there.


What does this mean to us?

< (eg; Why did the chicken cross the road?)>
That's easy, it was stapled to the punk rocker's head.

Croeso means welcome.

A 48 hour strike (if it happens) will mean pre-mod for 2 days.

alji

Sure it can - electrical impulses or whatever. I can't explain why exactly but there is a scientific explanation, even if we don't know it.



Science isn't simple to me, it's a lot more complicated than the idea that there is a god: "where did he come from? He was always there! Why? Because he said so!" That is simplicity itself. Religion seems to be, if we can't figure out how something works or why something happens, we'll just say some all mighty unaccountable god made it so and expect people to swallow that.

No story you could tell about electrical impulses would tell you what it is like for me to be enjoying some music or feeling pain. No doubt there are signals in the central nervous system, but that doesn't really tell us much about someone's experiences.

Science tries to go for the simplest explanation that fits the facts. The principle involved is known as "Occam's Razor". It tells us not to propose more explanatory things than we absolutely need.

I agree that the God Theory is also a simple one. However, an 'unnacountable' God would be complicated. In the view of most believers, God is perfect in every way. That's very simple and accountable. We don't have to explain why God has only 'so much' of something - because He has no such limitations.

Sometimes things like gravity are better explanations for what we observe. There's no need to suppose that God directly causes us not to float up and away. Even so, science isn't too good at explaining just what gravity is and why it has just that certain strength mathematically expressed by the Gravitational Constant.

toxx

It's nice to see posts here again... though *you* won't see mine for goodness' knows how long - a day or so, by current reckoning.

I'm with you, toxxin...

they can send a man to the moon etc , yet can't find a cure for cancer .

Isn't anyone with me?!

depends on where you are ,is it warm blue sky .

It's foggy and cold. I miss Queensland.LOL