h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If you go searching you'll find this:
"Wyrd is the underlying connection and reason of the worlds (rather like the Ancient Greek concept of 'Logos'). In the person, orlog (a combination of wyrd and personal actions) develops to determine that person's later actions and the connection with wyrd. So, to a Heathen, every action we take is determined by orlog and interacts with wyrd, sometimes to produce effects we do not expect and have not foreseen (similar to Chaos theory)."

Which doesn't give you much.

In heathen cosmology, Wyrd pre-dates everything, including the gods, who are as much subject to it as anything/one else. It's guardians are called the Norns and they (there are three of them, all female) live under the tree of the worlds in its roots, alongside the well of wisdom. they look after the fate of men and they have names which reflect that, which can be rendered as 'past' 'present' and 'future'. I have a relationship with 'past' who may be the original Norn.

There are other norns, who attach themselves to men through their lives to bring their luck. Luck is a solid force in Heathen theology - it can be gifted, borrowed, transferred and lost. It can also be incurred and nurtured. people are viwed as having specific forms of luck, and many forms are mentioned by name. If you are a sailor, having 'wind-luck' was precious. I have a friend who claims to possess 'curry-luck': he can always find the one decent Indian restaurant in any town! For a long period of time, I have experienced 'job-luck', and I dearly hope I never lose it.

but back to Wyrd. It connects everything. It is cause and effect but it possesses no moral imperitive: it just is, like gravity.

hi HS,

What you call the Wyrd I probably refer to as Fred. Sounds very similar anyhow, as Fred is not a personal god concept, more just 'what is'. And also 'that which we cannot ever *know*'.

But I don't think gravity fits because it ends up being a part of the picture rather than something existing outside of 'that which is'.

Meanwhile, luck seems quite a subjective idea. Things that might appear to be very unlucky often end up teaching us very important lessons, which then makes them lucky happenings.

Noggin has just told me that he has a friend who said to him once that the harder he works at things the luckier he becomes, which I think says a lot about how much we are able to create our own 'luck'.


az

Hi, E&C.

I would have thought that wyrd was a more prominent and well-known feature of Middle Earth than Earth but, hey, what do I know? I stand corrected by Coren. Maybe they have a different word for it there.

toxx

<...Fred is not a personal god concept, more just 'what is'. And also 'that which we cannot ever *know*'.>

So 'Fred' is just another word for infinite ignorance. That seems like a very handy ragbag category in which to throw any concept you like without having to do the work of philosophical analysis. School playground hermeneutics!

E&C. "Her`me`neu´tics
Noun 1. hermeneutics - the branch of theology that deals with principles of exegesis
theology, divinity - the rational and systematic study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truth."

toxx

Thank you, toxx and HS. I know next to nothing about religious stuff.

Coren: I suppose I shall have to make a brief appearance; I am not sure if there is a Middle Earth equivalent to wyrd, what it is, nor what we call it. I do know that we do not just believe in gods, though we call them Valar, we know for a fact they exist, having taken part in more than a few wars. Which pretty much makes this whole thread irrelevant for me.

"I would have thought that wyrd was a more prominent and well-known feature of Middle Earth than Earth but, hey, what do I know? I stand corrected by Coren. Maybe they have a different word for it there. "

I don't know which Middle Earth Corey lives in, but the one in the Heathen cosmology (more properly called Midgarth i.e. MidEarth, hence Tolkien's Middle Earth) is one of our nine worlds. and, yes, wyrd is a fundamental concept. However, as Tolkien (being Roman Catholic) did not choose to put it in LoTR, the fans - as opposed to the Heathens - won't be aware of it. Along with a whole lot of other essential religious concepts.

Hi Toxx

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That's a good title! Maybe I'll start the ball rolling with an entry! But it's not going to be done this weekend, alas.

Toxx, <>:

All this talk of the razor reminds me of the story of the Italian priest, Dominic Barberi, who came to England in the 19th century, and was instrumental in Newman becoming a Catholic. His accent was, er, bad, and he once told a congregation that without face they could not be shaved.

Norns, are like the Fates, in Greek mythology? I can't remember all the names, just Clotho and Lachesis, is that right?
Wyrd = karma? Or is it Dharma?

That's good Andrew!

I'm sure that's right, Adelaide; and the third one is Atropos. That's without doing what would be an easy Google search.

Somehow I think of 'kismet' but we're tradition jumping here in a very promiscuous way!

toxx

Hi, HS. Tolkien was, after all, writing fiction so he didn't have to keep away from anything. OK, as you say he didn't choose to include much of a concept of fate or whatever. I seem to recall that the scrying bowl only showed distant events but not future ones. Kinda the Middle Earth equivalent of the internet! I know he was an RC - his brother was a priest here in Stoke.

toxx

Atropos, of course! I read a brilliant sf story about a 20th century Greek archaelogist meeting the Fates atop a high mountain, in Isaac Asimov's Flying Circus in 1981... I can't remember who wrote the story, but it was extremely good. (Might have been David Brin.)

Mahahahah.. yourself!!!

God is Wakan tanka, meaningless words used to discuss the unknown. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!@!@

Apologies if this has already been linked and discussed. I've been away from the conversation for such a long time, I've no hope of back tracking.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1287710,00.html

Yes, well it WILL show itself as all the particles in the Particle Zoo inevitably do, don't they?

Reminds me of the theory of whiskey bottle quanta. If one throws a whiskey bottle off the 10th floor enough times, one can record virtually any conceivable fragment configuration excepting of course those with two or less sides.

Hello, Moth! It's so good to see you again!
Aha, the Higgs Boson... New Scientist is postively obsessed with it, and the search for it. I find it interesting that they acll it a matter of faith...

Hi both
"one can record virtually any conceivable fragment configuration excepting of course those with two or less sides."

It's probably the thing with two or less sides that we're looking for here.

Welcome back Moth, it's good to know you're still around.

Wyrd - the forces of destiny. Personified as Urd - goddess of fate: Past, Verdandi - goddess of fate: Present and Skuld - goddess of fate: Future.

Adelaide, it has nothing to do with karma or Dharma!


In Buddhist teaching, the law of karma, says: `for every
event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was
caused by the first.

Dharma" means "protection". By practising Buddha's teachings we protect ourself from suffering and problems. All the problems we experience during daily life originate in ignorance, and the method for eliminating ignorance is to practise Dharma.


Alji