A Conversation for An Empty Area of Space...

Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 101

Chris Tonks

Wait wait wait! Every time I say this, you seem to get it wrong. I'm sorry I have to go over it again, but it really is important:
'Universe' means 'everything', it is the encapsulation of absolutly everything in existance or non-existance. The Universe isn't an entity in itself, merely the term for the entire, well, everything.
And, on the topic of collapsing and right-amount-of-matter, the Laws of Infinity state that there is obviously infinite mass, and therefore, if it's expanding now (which I, personally, disbelieve), then it will expand forever. The infinity of matter is something that scientists tend to overlook for the sake of simplicity.


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 102

Eomando (it is it is it is 2 years now!!! 8-) )

I always considered it as being a fixed amount of mass, but infintie space inbetween...


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 103

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

If your Universe "obviously" has an infinite mass, that's enough to convince me that we live in different Universes...

As an aside, Webster's online dictionary defines "Universe" thus:

u·ni·verse (yn-vûrs)
n.

1) All matter and energy, including Earth, the galaxies and all therein, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

2) The earth together with all its inhabitants and created things.
The human race.

3) The sphere or realm in which something exists or takes place.

Note that the widest definition is "all matter and energy", suggesting that time exists outside the Universe, as would any other dimensions which do not interact with matter. In the narrowest definition (3) multiple Universes are not merely valid, but appear inevitable...


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 104

Chris Tonks

Um, well, I'm not so sure that time is an entity in itself either. It doesn't have to exist, you know, I mean, it isn't a thing that we move through, it's a thing that moves - if it's a thing at all.
I really don't know how to express my theories here. I'd better finish the article on the Laws of Infinity.
Anyway, I, oh never mind.smiley - winkeye


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 105

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

Remember to post a link here when you're done - it's been a while since I investigated Cantor's diagonal slash! smiley - bigeyes


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 106

Engels42 (Thingite Minister of Leaky Ethics and Spiffyness)

*jumps into the time machine, to respond to something he heard while sitting at the desk a couple of hours ago, but was to proccupied with his notes.*

I think I would have to agree with E on this. If there were infinite mass, then at the big bang, there would have been an infinite amoung of gravitaional attraction. Thus it would have never expanded in the first place, I think that's how it would go anyways.

*jumps back into the time machine, taking several cheesy biscuits for the short trip back to his own time line*


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 107

Engels42 (Thingite Minister of Leaky Ethics and Spiffyness)

*steps back into his time line*
Ahh.. feels good to be back.
*munching on cheesy biscuit*

Cantor's diagonal slash? Would you care to elaborate on that one? Strangely that is something that I have not come across as of yet. Wow, no I feel really lost. smiley - winkeye

*sits back down at his desk, fighting insomnia, drinking some tea, and eating cheesy biscuits.*


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 108

MadDog

*walks in stoned off his ass

Hmm.... push to dispense liquid

*proceeds to push button another 1,000,000,000 times... starts drinking immediately without heading to the taste till after about 10 cupfull when he realizes it's tea, and starting to reflood the lab.

"Oh Shit tea makes me fart!"

*Lets a big one rip.... starting a mass fire from the bunson burners which are still lit. But the flames are quickly quenched by the rising level of the tea. Finds an inflated raft lying in the corner of the room and jumps in, seeing a package of cheesy biscuits, starts eating as he's got a bad case of the munchies as he watches the room being ingulfed in a pool of tea.... HOT TEA!!!!


Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Post 109

jbliqemp...

Gurgle, gurgle .

Time is how we define the universe's movement, and our own.

If the universe had infinite mass, the only thing it could do as a singularity would be implode.

-jb


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 110

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

Cantor's Diagonal Slash is a simple proof that there is more than one size of infinity...

"Infinity" is usually thought of as "that value which can never be exceeded", but Cantor produced this thought experiment to show that there was an infinity greater than our general perception of infinity. He referred to "common" infinity as "Aleph Null", and this "greater" infinity as "Aleph One"... Proof to follow in my next posting...


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 111

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

Right, a few ground rules - any future references to "infinite" or "infinity" in this posting refer to "Aleph Null" or "Mundane" infinity, unless otherwise stated. The proof assumes an infinite area to work in, an infinite number of cards with "0" printed on one face and "1" printed on the other, infinite time (and patience) to perform the experiment, and a fundamental knowledge of binary arithmetic... smiley - bigeyes

The initial premises are:
(1) Every positive integer has a corresponding binary representation, and

(2) There are an infinite number of positive integers. (i.e. you can always add one at the end of the list!)

On this basis, the experimenter takes the pack of cards and arranges them in rows showing the binary representation of each integer, starting from zero (0000...) to an infinite number of binary digits' precision. When done, there are an infinite number of rows, each one representing a single positive integer, to an infinite degree of precision.

So, at this stage, every positive integer HAS to be listed, right?

Right?

Well...?

Cantor suggests that you now start at the top-left corner (with the least significant "bit" being at the left-hand side) and, following a 45 degree diagonal, form a binary number by taking each card you pass over and turning it over. You still end up with a representation of a positive integer, so the number should appear in the original list, right?

Well....

The first bit is different from the first number in the list, so it can't be THAT one, the second bit is different from the second number, so it can't be THAT one, the third bit is...

and so on - it is a valid integer which does not exist in the infinite list of all valid integers!

Cantor suggests that it belongs to a larger infinite list, and names this "size" of infinity "Aleph one".

Who says you never learn anything here?

Now, where do I apply for a grant to buy an infinite number of "0-1" cards...? And EXACTLY how big is the Great Hall??? smiley - bigeyes


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 112

Engels42 (Thingite Minister of Leaky Ethics and Spiffyness)

hey, thanks peet. I was confused but not any more. smiley - winkeye
*gets up from his seat at the desk and heads over to the great hall*
Have fun everyone, and no more tea, _please_
*returns sign to door 'Free for all experiments, especially those on monkey calling'*


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 113

Dodge Ram

*wanders over to Engles time machine, and uses it to travel back in time to a minute or two before mad-dog come into the room, and breaks the tea machine before mad-dog can use it it* there... *goes back to his own time line and sits down, all quite a feat considering he is still cross-eyed*


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 114

11_3082 Tysbe Perich_(ACE)_

*Finally comes to relize that he's been knocked out for the past couple of days, wakes up and shoes the monkeys off of his face*
Hey guys.... what happened, where's the notebook? Did I miss something? why is the Tea Machine broken? Remind me never to knock myself out again. *stands up and looks at the equations written on the board* uuuuggggg *walks over and erases it all* At least now we can all keep our vision in tact, Dodge I'm looking in your direction.
*goes to see what else he has missed in the last couple of days* Well I see Engels started to do some 'work'.


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 115

MadDog

*goes back in time, before Joe broke the tea machine, presses the button 10000000 times, goes back to his own time line, and breaks the time machine. * Oh no... we're flooded again


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 116

Chris Tonks

*goes back in time (whilst wondering how anyone else did it because he is the only person who can in the Known Universe), creates an invincible time shield around the tea machine, which only **he** can take away in **any** time, because it was created using his watch, which no one else can access. All experiments with tea and time are now ceased.*


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 117

Engels42 (Thingite Minister of Leaky Ethics and Spiffyness)

And there was much rejoicing YAY smiley - smiley

*looks around at all the confused time warped inhabitants of his lab.*
So, anyone up for chess? How about we try and figure out the probabbility that someone somewhere is playing chess. At this very instant.
*takes some notes about this*
This should be good.


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 118

jbliqemp...

What's the question? Lots of people know how to play chess. If we assign an arbitrary number to the percentage of chess players on the planet, say, 1%, that's still 60 million people. I imagine that somewhere, two of those people are playing chess. A more interesting question might be: What is the probability that someone is, right now, going to be checkmated in four moves by a first time chess player. That introduces some comlex variables.

-jb


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 119

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

Must the first time player also be a person? (As opposed to a computer or lab monkey...)


Cantor's Diagonal Slash

Post 120

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

(The previous Peet shimmers and disappears. Seconds later, another Peet rushes in and slams the airlock door behind him, spinning the locking handles furiously as there is a loud rushing noise outside. This is followed by a *SPLOSH*, a *GURGLE* and a strong smell of bananas. A few drops of yellow liquid dribble through the door seals.)

Don't Panic! (pant) Nothing to (pant) see! Just go (pant) about your business!


Key: Complain about this post

Astrophysics & lasers...BANG!!

Write an Entry

"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."

Write an entry
Read more