A Conversation for Oliver Cromwell
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
HappyDude Started conversation Mar 23, 2004
Oliver Cromwell was an Evil Military Dictator who after organising the regicide of Charles I went on to run the country as a military dictatorship, dissolving parliament and using the Army to control the nation and installing a system of regional Military Governors to govern at county level.
... or am I just talking horse
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Mar 23, 2004
In my opinion (it's very limited), Cromwell was a man who overthrew the king for the sake of the "democratic" parliament, and then gave himself powers ever greater than those of the king.
But then again, I'm Irish and so am probably biased.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
HappyDude Posted Mar 23, 2004
Ah, the Wars he took us into without parliamentary approval, fighting the Spanish in France (Battle of the Dunes, Dunkirk etc.) , the Anglo-Dutch Wars, the taking of Jamaica (part of the Western Design), and the brutal butchery that was his trademark in Ireland (NB: Cromwell's persecution of Catholics in Ireland fitted with his actions at home, with things such as the brutal mutilation of the Quaker James Nayler giving the Irish ample forewarning of what to expect).
As for "powers ever greater than those of the king", the Instrument of Government which gave Cromwell his powers certainly did that at least in the opinion of Colonels Alured, Okey and Saunders who petitioned against the implementation of the Instrument. With the establishment of Triers to appoint all new clergy and Ejectors to expel inadequate ministers and schoolmasters, combined with the dissolving of the Protectorate Parliament and the Rule of the Major-Generals (in which the country was divided into 12 districts under military jurisdiction) Cromwell was (IMHO) certainly more powerful than any King since the introduction of the Magna Carte
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
HappyDude Posted Mar 23, 2004
That said without Cromwell we probably would not have the Bill of Rights Act, 1689 (A727265) or The Act of Settlement 1701 (A695441) which are (IMHO) the cornerstones of the constitutional monarchy we live under today in the UK.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Mar 23, 2004
True. Cromwell came into Ireland, kicked every Catholic off their land, and forced them all into Connacht, which at the time was one of the biggest shitholes in all of Europe (mostly bogs, and a hell of a lot of overcrowding), hence the expression 'To Hell or to Connacht'. He then moved in English and Scottish gentlemen to take over, and forced the Irish to work as slaves on the land that had once been theirs. Any Irishman who figured that this wasn't so great was hung, drawn, and quartered. I'll be sure to dig up some more fun facts about Cromwell for tomorrow.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Mar 24, 2004
Good point. However, it has become a lot better since Cromwell's days.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Mar 25, 2004
Yeah, they now have that big pool in Galway.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Mar 25, 2004
That big, overpriced pool you mean. Still, it's better than the one in Tuam. And perhaps if Cromwell had never come to Ireland, there'd actually be a point to learning Irish.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
whitec Posted Mar 26, 2004
Ah, one of the founders of the British Empire then? Perhaps this was worse than those who governed/colonized America or India or Australia or Africa. I guess thanks to the Irish literary tradition (as opposed to illiterate natives in many of the other areas) we can remember Cromwell's activities there from both pro and con perspectives.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Mar 26, 2004
There is a point to learing Irish. It keeps children off the streets during the day.
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
Blackberry Cat , if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque Posted Mar 29, 2004
Cromwell wasn't fighting for a democratic parliament
for him the primary concern was religion
by the standards of the time he was tolerant
compare his actions to what went on in the religious wars in Germany that century
EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Mar 29, 2004
If we were to compare our morality with the morality of the Germans then we'd all be saints!
( to any Germans out there. I'm not a racist, I just tend to tell racist jokes a lot. )
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EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR
- 1: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 2: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 23, 2004)
- 3: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 4: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 23, 2004)
- 5: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 6: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 23, 2004)
- 7: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 8: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 23, 2004)
- 9: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 10: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 23, 2004)
- 11: HappyDude (Mar 23, 2004)
- 12: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Mar 23, 2004)
- 13: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 24, 2004)
- 14: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Mar 24, 2004)
- 15: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 25, 2004)
- 16: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Mar 25, 2004)
- 17: whitec (Mar 26, 2004)
- 18: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 26, 2004)
- 19: Blackberry Cat , if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque (Mar 29, 2004)
- 20: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Mar 29, 2004)
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