A Conversation for Oliver Cromwell

EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 1

HappyDude

Oliver Cromwell was an Evil Military Dictator who after organising the regicide of Charles I went on to run the country as a military dictatorship, dissolving parliament and using the Army to control the nation and installing a system of regional Military Governors to govern at county level.

... or am I just talking horsesmiley - bleepsmiley - spacesmiley - spacesmiley - huh


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 2

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

In my opinion (it's very limited), Cromwell was a man who overthrew the king for the sake of the "democratic" parliament, and then gave himself powers ever greater than those of the king.

But then again, I'm Irish and so am probably biased. smiley - winkeye


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 3

HappyDude

Ah, the Wars he took us into without parliamentary approval, fighting the Spanish in France (Battle of the Dunes, Dunkirk etc.) , the Anglo-Dutch Wars, the taking of Jamaica (part of the Western Design), and the brutal butchery that was his trademark in Ireland (NB: Cromwell's persecution of Catholics in Ireland fitted with his actions at home, with things such as the brutal mutilation of the Quaker James Nayler giving the Irish ample forewarning of what to expect).

As for "powers ever greater than those of the king", the Instrument of Government which gave Cromwell his powers certainly did that at least in the opinion of Colonels Alured, Okey and Saunders who petitioned against the implementation of the Instrument. With the establishment of Triers to appoint all new clergy and Ejectors to expel inadequate ministers and schoolmasters, combined with the dissolving of the Protectorate Parliament and the Rule of the Major-Generals (in which the country was divided into 12 districts under military jurisdiction) Cromwell was (IMHO) certainly more powerful than any King since the introduction of the Magna Carte smiley - spacesmiley - erm


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 4

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 5

HappyDude

smiley - wah
and I thought it made sensesmiley - erm


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 6

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

After going over it for the last 18 minutes, I think I finaly understand it. smiley - ok


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 7

HappyDude

ok, quick summary:
IMHO, Cromwell was an Evil Military Dictatorsmiley - spacesmiley - erm


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 8

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

Agreed. smiley - cheers


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 9

HappyDude

That said without Cromwell we probably would not have the Bill of Rights Act, 1689 (A727265) or The Act of Settlement 1701 (A695441) which are (IMHO) the cornerstones of the constitutional monarchy we live under today in the UK.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 10

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

And there'd be more Irish people about today. smiley - smiley


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 11

HappyDude

smiley - yikes
smiley - winkeye


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 12

Apollyon - Grammar Fascist

True. Cromwell came into Ireland, kicked every Catholic off their land, and forced them all into Connacht, which at the time was one of the biggest shitholes in all of Europe (mostly bogs, and a hell of a lot of overcrowding), hence the expression 'To Hell or to Connacht'. He then moved in English and Scottish gentlemen to take over, and forced the Irish to work as slaves on the land that had once been theirs. Any Irishman who figured that this wasn't so great was hung, drawn, and quartered. I'll be sure to dig up some more fun facts about Cromwell for tomorrow.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 13

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

What do you mean Connacht was a s**t hole? It still is. smiley - winkeye


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 14

Apollyon - Grammar Fascist

Good point. However, it has become a lot better since Cromwell's days.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 15

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

Yeah, they now have that big pool in Galway.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 16

Apollyon - Grammar Fascist

That big, overpriced pool you mean. Still, it's better than the one in Tuam. And perhaps if Cromwell had never come to Ireland, there'd actually be a point to learning Irish.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 17

whitec

Ah, one of the founders of the British Empire then? Perhaps this was worse than those who governed/colonized America or India or Australia or Africa. I guess thanks to the Irish literary tradition (as opposed to illiterate natives in many of the other areas) we can remember Cromwell's activities there from both pro and con perspectives.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 18

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

There is a point to learing Irish. It keeps children off the streets during the day.


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 19

Blackberry Cat , if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque

Cromwell wasn't fighting for a democratic parliament
for him the primary concern was religion
by the standards of the time he was tolerant
compare his actions to what went on in the religious wars in Germany that century


EVIL MILITARY DICTATOR

Post 20

GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011

If we were to compare our morality with the morality of the Germans then we'd all be saints!

(smiley - sorry to any Germans out there. I'm not a racist, I just tend to tell racist jokes a lot. smiley - erm)


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