A Conversation for Talking Point: The Working Week
Is a long working week civilised?
Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 Started conversation Jan 20, 2004
Studies have shown that people who are hunter gatherers often work around 7 hours per week to obtain all they need to meet their physical needs. The rest of the time is spent in social interaction, resting sleeping and cultural activities.
We, on the other hand spend many, many hours per week in earning money, food gathering, food preparation, sorting out our accommodation and then trying to fit some "quality time" with the people who mean most to us.
Which sounds more civilised? Why do we have to work so many hours?
Is a long working week civilised?
Lizzbett Posted Jan 20, 2004
I'm not necessarily convinced that we do HAVE to work so many hours. Yes, there are people in badly paid jobs who need to work long hours just to make ends meet. However, it seems to me that a lot of people in well paid jobs also work very long hours, when there is no real financial need. I have come across plenty of people over the years who happily do unpaid overtime. Why? I've also come across a fair few people in my time who really really LIKE working. Unfortunately, these people tend to be in management and don't understand why the rest of us don't feel the same.
I do a 37 hour week for roughly £14,000 a year. This is an adequate salary for my present needs. I could get a more responsible job and earn more money if I wanted to, but I don't need the hassle. I did a more responsible, stressful job at one time, but gave it up after a health scare. I have no real ambitions and I like a quiet life. Some middle management types cannot understand this at all. I live in the hope that as I get older and my mortgage gets smaller that perhaps I will be able to get by on part-time wages. If I didn't need to work full time, I wouldn't.
Is a long working week civilised?
ExpatChick Posted Jan 20, 2004
umm, i'd be interested to know where you found that hunter/gatherers could spend only 7 hrs a week to meet all their basic needs. most societies called "hunter/gatherers" are actually much more dependant on the gathering than on the hunting, and in these societies (contemporary and extinct, based on what archeological anthropology can teach us), people (most generally women and younger children) spend at LEAST half their waking hours every day gathering food. in most such societies, this labor yields enough food for the group to survive (subsistence level of caloric intake).
this is why writing developed only after the development of agriculture - with agriculture, people didnt have to spend so much gathering and thus had more time to develop written language, more refined art (look at the development of ceramics), etc.
pretty much everything we associate with 'civilization' was developed only after the rise of agriculture and settlements, and as the predominance of the hunter/gatherer lifestyle faded.
please note, i am NOT in any way making a value judgement about various societies.
Is a long working week civilised?
ExpatChick Posted Jan 20, 2004
i also wanted to add that, even though hunter/gatherer societies spend most of their time gathering food, this is totally different from the modern idea of work, since it is done by the entire group, usually together, as a copperative effort. so even 'work time' is all about social interaction, instead of work time meaning sitting isolated in a cubicle under bad flourescent lights...
Is a long working week civilised?
Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 Posted Jan 20, 2004
I made the original comment to spark debate and deliberately didn't use the word "some" in relation to hunting and gathering people. I agree with the comments given. However some of the things you have mentioned have led to the need for "possessions" - which lead to a whole new set of values which may tie us down more than we actually thought they would.
A pot or book may hinder a hunter gatherer but they still have humour, music, body art, carvings and decoration, storytelling and probably some form of drama included in this.
I'm trying to work out for myself, as in the comment above, whether I need the stress of a more highly paid job which allows me more possessions and access to more expensive cultural activities or whether to have a lower income and be more involved in amateur dramatics, singing groups, family outings and the like.
Is a long working week civilised?
ExpatChick Posted Jan 20, 2004
as i said, i'm not making a judgement. if anything, i do that trying to tone down the materialism, consumerism, etc of the modern world, and trying to spend more time on things that you find spiritually/emotionally fulfilling is a very laudable goal.
my previous post was prompted mainly by what, as far as i know, what the serious error of saying that hunter/gatherer societies spend a mere 7 hrs a week 'working'.
Is a long working week civilised?
Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 Posted Jan 20, 2004
Some of the literature around says that in ideal conditions that's all some people need to do. Clearly it depends on the prevailing conditions and people may face hardship and hunger more than they would choose.
Also I can't claim the argument for myself, I believe Marshall Sahlins (sp?) made it in his book Stone Age Economics about 30 years ago.
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Is a long working week civilised?
- 1: Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 (Jan 20, 2004)
- 2: Lizzbett (Jan 20, 2004)
- 3: ExpatChick (Jan 20, 2004)
- 4: ExpatChick (Jan 20, 2004)
- 5: Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 (Jan 20, 2004)
- 6: ExpatChick (Jan 20, 2004)
- 7: Vestboy II not playing the Telegram Game at U726319 (Jan 20, 2004)
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