h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was talking about my post in the Aceforum. Have I come across in a way that insults you on this thread, or anywhere else on site for that matter?

the Ace drop down list wasnt right when i looked yesterday i think it has been like that some time

did I take that long to reply

It was fords post #94 I was agreeing with.

Emmily

then i appologise for geting the rong end of the stick

I totally missed your post (100), Emmily...stupid browser!

Yeah I remember the buddy ACE scheme being mentioned. It's a good idea

Look, it's this simple: if someone wants the kudos of an ACE badge, they need to do something to earn it, otherwise it becomes meaningless.

Hear hear!

Everytime they do some major tinkering or an upgrade the drop down lists default to a very old version The subs one is the same.

It has been reported onsite and I think i remeber someone said they had reported on the ace forum.

I seemed to remember there were 80 plus members of the aceforum - and the members/numbers had been checked when Mina was running the group to make sure there were no stragglers left on it that had resigned!

Oh, so that's why the Dropdowen list is so wierd, Thanks Mort

I still think it needs sorting though, if the Italics hadn't been cut down so much, someone might have the time to do it

Emmily

In post 106, EV makes a point about earning a badge and I understand the argument he's putting forward but I wonder to what extent that viewpoint moves us towards a solution to the problem of unaced newbies. The concept of fairness is one we all carry forward from our childhoods, but, using the adult part of our brains we might (to borrow the words of our founder) ask if it, cosmically speaking, matters that a few ACEs aren't 'earning' their badges.

I don't think we're anywhere near the stage where the ACE badge 'becomes meaningless.' I can see that it *could* happen, and perhaps that will have to be addressed in the future, but not *now*.

The immediate problem is that there are not enough 'welcoming' ACEs and the only solution to this is to have more 'welcoming' ACEs. The number of inactive ACEs is irrelevant unless they're blocking places that might be taken by others.

An analogy that comes to mind is that of marathon running. Towards the end of a marathon, people emerge from the crowd dressed in vest and shorts and with a false number pinned to their chests hoping to con the organisers out of a finishers' medal and a free banana. You wonder how they feel when they sit at home looking at a medal they didn't earn. And do they *really* enjoy their banana or does it stick in the throat? But it doesn't detract from the achievement of those who genuinely finished the race provided that the organisers remember to order a few extra medals... and extra bananas.

The obvious answer is just to increase the number bananas... I mean, ACEs ... and ignore those who aren't doing the welcoming part of the job description. But if that isn't possible, a few free, voluntary transfers to the Gurus might be part of the answer. Those who see their role as involving problem-solving and troubleshooting will fit right in. It's real answer to a real problem that's easy to implement and isn't likely to upset anyone. It won't mean new rules, require enforcement or create much extra work. Volunteers who transfer will still have a badge, status/kudos and access to the Italics; they'll still be in the loop.

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, that wouldn't be unusaul

We can't recruit new ACEs as there are already 80 of us, and that should be enough

But, I'm currently going through the now updated ACEs Dropdown list. There are a *lot* of ACEs not subscribed to this page, (I'll bore you with the statistics later) so they don't even see when there is a call for help.

And, so far 3 haven't posted since last year.

IMO we need the current ACE list slimmed down and new ACEs recruited.

Emmily

"I wonder to what extent that viewpoint moves us towards a solution to the problem of unaced newbies."

Simple - if everyone who volunteered to be an ACE actually did some ACEing on a regular basis, there wouldn't be lists of unACEd newbies stretching back for days. There are enough ACEs spread over enough time zones to ensure that the list should be reasonably up to date at all times.

But, EV, you can't *force* people to ACE and if you remove the people who aren't ACEing you aren't any better off.

The threat of having your badge removed if you don't earn it has always been there but appears to be ineffective. It's hard to monitor fairly, impossible to enforce without causing upset and open to the defence of 'Ah, but I'm doing other Acerly Duties.'

I don't think a tightening of the rules - a clampdown - will work. I think appointing more ACEs *will* work.

The constraint on the number of ACEs is arbitrary but if the numbers have to stay fixed which is more likely to release places for new ACEs quickly: (a) asking people to transfer to the gurus or (b) chucking out the dead wood?

Emmily, I know of one ACE who hasn't posted on site since January.

How come I'm so far down the list?

huh, have you seen who's right at the bottom fords

There's no pleasing some people is there

Emmily

"you can't *force* people to ACE"

Of course not, but you shouldn't *have* to - it's a volunteer scheme after all, and if people can't be bothered doing it, why did they agree to do it in the first place?

"The number of inactive ACEs is irrelevant unless they're blocking places that might be taken by others."

Or it is causing resentment and frustration in the ACES that are doing the welcoming.

"Or it is causing resentment and frustration in the ACES that are doing the welcoming."

Spot on Mort This situation has been going on for far too long.

Emmily

Will the 'resentment and frustration' making the 'welcoming' ACEs less active over time? It seems to me that it's actually having the opposite effect - conscientious ACEs are working harder than they might otherwise choose to in order to make a point.

The question is whether the active ACEs have to work *too* hard in order to get the newbies ACEd - by absolute standards and not by relative ones. Saying 'I'm working harder than him and it's not fair' is not a useful measure. There will always be ACEs who do more and those who do less. Relative comparisons merely foster ill feeling and don't address the problem. All any ACE can ask themselves is 'Am I doing my bit, given my other commitments?'

People volunteer for all sorts of reasons and 'wanting to do the job' is often not one of them, odd though that might seem. For example, I'm certain we've had applicants for the Artists who have been motivated more by the challenge of passing the test than by the opportunity to churn out illustrations for other people's writing week in, week out. Being *accepted* to be a volunteer is in itself an ego-boost for some and taking a badge off someone might have unexpected effects.

In my experience, threats hardly ever work. The threat of being deACEd if you don't work hard enough isn't working and won't work in the future. The Italics are too wise to carry the threat out in a mechanical, unthinking way and so the process is always going to be too long-winded to address a problem like the newbie-lists.

On the other hand, relying on people feeling sufficiently goaded so that they work harder to prove a point isn't at all wise. It doesn't feature in the top ten greatest management techniques .

We need more ACEs.