h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just saw the grabbing of the torch by a protester in London, and the attempt to extinguish the flame - I was just wondering what reaction forumites would have to all this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7332942.stm

Personally, I was rather astounded at the sheer number of blue-suited bodyguards that surrounded the runners.

My opinion would be that China should never have been given the games in the first place.

As for "sport and politics are seperate," they seem to be forgetting the successful campaign conducted against South Africa - and I notice the government are (finally) talking about banning Zimbabwean teams.

Does it only work in Africa ?

Compare China's import/export economy, and then Zimbabwe's. You can do what you want to the latter, but when you rely on the former for most of your manufacturing?

Nobody wants to antagonise the Chinese, except people like the Tibetans who have nothing left to lose.

I suspect there might be a degree of hypocrisy going on. The West is pouring investment into China because it will open up a massive new export market for our companies. I doubt the poorer people in our society will benefit most from that. If people really are serious about hurting China surely the most effective way would be connected with investment and technological expertise we are giving them.

Why should sports people be penalised if this leads to a boycott? And this may have a knock on effect to London 2012. Poor kids round here are incredibly excited by the Olympics coming to London. It incentivised kids to get involved in sport. I did loads of sport in my youth and would have loved the Olympics here. I'm concerned because of what happened in the past to the Moscow and LA tit for tat boycots. Same thing happened with South Africa. Sanction busting was apparently rife by companies. Rich people benefited, but sports people were penalised.

Fine if we use the Bejing Olympics as leverage, but make all the companies and our economy part of it too. It just won't happen.

I'll be honest I'm a sports fan so I'm biased. But lets have a bit of honesty from protesters about making the wealthier people pay as well.

Those are very good points, Effers!

Here a heap of companies rely on China for their manufacturing, and they don't want any sanctions...

Sanctions *must* be general and whole-hearted or they're useless.

Vicky

Just saw the carry-on on the telly. I have never seen a more effective demonstration

What appalling images to be broadcast around the world. Chinese goons surrounded by a platoon of police thugs. Wonderful Cameramen shoved to the ground and kicked out of the way, protesters attacked by London's "finest". Compare today's events with the joyous flame-carrying ceremonies of past Olympics.

If the 2008 Olympics are in any way comparable to 1936, who will be the Tibetan Jesse Owen?

IMO - we shouldn't allow the Olympic ideal to be used as a propaganda tool. It's time to return the Games to Athens permanently and put an end to this ruinously expensive farce.

You sure there's not just a tinge of bias against London 2012, SWL?

I still say if we are genuinely serious we do more than just create a storm in a teacup over an Olympic torch.

This Tibetan thing has been going on for years. The only reason it's suddenly getting all this high profile thing is because of the Bejing Olympics. Why on earth didn't we do something years ago before their culture had to smashed?

Seriously what does anyone here think we can really do about things rather than hurt sports people that have trained all their lives for the Olympics? It just isn't fair to make them entirely responsible for humiliating China, whilst business does damn all. My dad has a loads of unit trusts and shares in China via HBSC bank, and is doing very nicely thank you. We don't hear about that on the media? Why not?

SWL, cameramen *should* be shoved to the ground and kicked out of the way, we're vermin.

Effers, a lot of people have been campaigning and writing letters and so on about Tibet for a long long time. This is, however, a unique opportunity to make that protest heard on a massive scale.

I've long been of the idea that the Olympics should be held in one place every time - possibly with a rotating chairmanship, like the EU - and a return to less of the corporate sponsorship and more of the personal/team achievement ethic.

Someone should alert the authorities to someone hacking SWL's account, did i really see him saying bad things about the police force?


I thought that was my job


Givent the situation I think they did a very effective job. You've got a situation of some very dissperate targets to hit.

First and most important in my book is the personal safety of the people there doing the torch carrying.

Then there's the wider public order and safety for other peole wanting to join in.

Then the ther's the PR issue of the Chinese and IOC wanting to make the event accessible.

Not easy to get all of those three things just right in the end they fell short of the mark on all three, but things could easily have been much worse.

I think any two fo those targets could have been carried out perfectly and simultaneously but trying to do all three means that any lone protest could have and it turns out did throw a spanner into the works. Anyone remember the disruption of the mens marathon at the last olympics I think it was the same guy who ran onto the track at a grand prix (cant remember which one as I dont take much interest in things that arent sports)

However all respect to Connie Huq. For like a true pro not mentiong the main fact that she did it because she's a publicity hungry meejihore and making comments herself that would have echoed if a little less stridently those of the protester she was subject to a collateral attack from.

one love

Bloody hell, Blicky and SWL agreeing on something... *checks window for horsemen*

To be honest why are we, in a "liberal democracy" allowing an expression of peaceful sporting contest (the flame) to be escorted through our streets by Chinese heavies? Surely our own baton-happy police force can do enough kicking and gouging without having to get support from the Chinese?

You can't blame the Tibetans. They are screwed - in the short term they have no hope of change, and in the long term they will be an ethnic minority in their own 'country'. As someone else said, nothing to lose, perfect showcase for some action.

If they could protest against Chinese business they would do that too - but everyone ignores them because the entire UK economy is built on the availability of cheap Chinese imports.

Somewhere on the Guardian website there is quite a funny piece by Marina Hyde suggesting starting a boycott of London 2012 now. Over Iraq, things like that.

sprout

There was one thing that jumped out at me as I saw a couple of very short clips on BBC News24 this morning. A protester was trying to stop a fellow protester jump over some railings and hit a policeman (at least that's what it looked like)- again a place where the minority make the bad news.

Did you know that Europe and the USA lobbied the Chinese Government not to grant permission to Chinese workers to form trade unions to improve pay and working conditions. As Johann Hari says in the Independent "We want to keep shopping until Chinese workers drop".

He also made a good suggestion as to how the sportsmen and women could lever their influence by demanding three specific human rights concessions from the Chinese Government before they would compete:

Release China's 10 greatest human right activists.
Invite the Dalai Lama to Beijing just for talks.
Allow a real UN peacekeeping force into Darfur.

It makes me ashamed to hear that about the trades unions.

On a totally superficial note: how cool were those rollerblading police in Paris?

Watching the images of cops on roller skates and guards guarding the guards, is it just me or is life becoming more Monty Python-esque by the day?

I'm not sure about this. Firstly, the protests aren't what they ought to be (a protest against the lack of democracy and human rights in China generally) but specifically about Tibet which has the stink of bandwagon-jumping and faux-political fashionistas about it "human rights are all very well but Tibet is *so* now, Buddhism is *so* in". I also hate the whole "disrupt the olympic torch" thing - what exactly is the point of that? It's a protest against who's holding the games, not the olympics themselves.

wait until the olympic torch passes through china:
http://feeds.theonion.com/~r/theonion/daily/~3/265730268/olympic_torch_used_to

The Dallai Llama is something of a mediawhore himself.

Lets face it the olympics themselves are about money not ideals - however we can't put it in Greece every year - it doesn't fit in with the American TV schedules.