h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The fact is, as I learned from Milan Rai's book - the USA wanted, *not* regime change, but what they effectively got - *leadership* change! They don't want democracy in Iraq - an election might end with the 'wrong' (Islamist party, say) result!

"I hate asking people for links, because I know these kinds of things are hard to find, but can you find anything to prove that?" - really? you should hate to because don't provide any. Even when asked to Zagreb.

Let's say I find it very interesting that from my whole post you decided to reply to the last sentence. "The two events are markedly different." What does this say about the strength of your argument?

BTW the first time around an uprising was promised support and then betrayed. That's the difference.

Absotively. If you want a reference, Zagreb- check out the book by Milan Rai - he has a lot to say about it!

http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030611230005.jxmbl9x4.html

Thanks for that link... interesting. From that site, I've just learned that NATO is considering pulling out of Belgium - because of the controversial 'universal justice' law, which allows Belgium to prosecute war criminals, whether they're Belgian or not. (Including Ariel Sharon!)

And this article, knocking the Republicans for holding closed-door meetings on the quality of evidence presented on Iraq. Now, if you ask me, the Republicans are over a barrel. Either the Republicans lied to the world so they could invade Iraq, or the intelligence agencies are filled with fools who can't do their jobs.

http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030612185045.ljt45wga.html

Heh... and you know what this means. When Republicans utter the word 'Belgium' - they're uttering the worst word they can think of! Sigh... I miss Douglas Adams.

Interesting...

freedom waffles anyone?

- "freedom from what?"

- "freedom from prosecution, ofcourse"

where-as in S korea american soldiers can run over teenage girls in a tank, safe in the knowledge they'll be taken home and found not guilty.

Maybe more countries need to follow the Belgian example.

"Either the Republicans lied to the world so they could invade Iraq, or the intelligence agencies are filled with fools who can't do their jobs."

Either or both may be true...

"NATO is considering pulling out of Belgium"

No. NATO is not considering pulling out of Belgium. The US is once again putting a gun to the collective head of an international organization and saying "Play by our rules and our rules alone and you have no say in what our rules are or we'll take our monetary ball and go home." I wish the world would use it's collective head and say "fine. Go home with your bloody ball. Your borders are now closed to all traffic. Yeah, we'll have some hardship for a bit, but we won't have to listen to Rumsfeld and Bush whining and lying and pretending that they have more intelligence than anyone (when we all know they have none) anymore. That relief should be worth any sacrifice."

Okay, my rant is finished.

"NATO is considering pulling out of Belgium"

No. NATO is not considering pulling out of Belgium. The US is once again putting a gun to the collective head of an international organization and saying "Play by our rules and our rules alone and you have no say in what our rules are or we'll take our monetary ball and go home." I wish the world would use it's collective head and say "fine. Go home with your bloody ball. Your borders are now closed to all traffic. Yeah, we'll have some hardship for a bit, but we won't have to listen to Rumsfeld and Bush whining and lying and pretending that they have more intelligence than anyone (when we all know they have none) anymore. That relief should be worth any sacrifice."

Okay, my rant is finished.

oops. sorry about the double post.

Er... Are you sure? This has very much the same flavor as the international court that the UN wanted to put in place, and which the U.S. objected against. For some reason the U.S. is afraid that many of its 'peacemakers' will be prosecuted.

I've been looking through the net for the last half-hour, trying to find a reference to Rumsfeld appointing an old retired general friend of his. I can't find the position he was appointed to, either. It's apparently a slap in the face to currently active military personnel.

The "Nato is..." thing is like the spin of the link in post 605


From The Matrix

"I don't even see the code anymore"
-points to monitors
"blond, brunette, red head"

The International Court is in place. Most of the world respects it, particularly the countries who have committed the most (lives) to peacekeeping. The U. S. signed on to it and then Bush abrogated the agreement. But the court is in place and it will conduct its business whether the U. S. likes it or not. At the moment the U. S. has blackmailed itself an exemption from prosecution.

NATO is not pulling out of Belgium; the U. S. has threatened to withhold funds for a NATO building.

And as far as Belgium's suit against various Americans for their crimes, how exactly is it different from the American arrest of Manuel Noriega? Oh, yeah, Belgium isn't invading the U. S.

Here's a recent post of mine from another thread:


"Belgium appears not to respect the sovereignty of other countries," Rumsfeld said . . .

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030612/w061246.html

"and we don't respect anybody":

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/12/un_peacekeeper030612

The war in Iraq is not over (two American aircraft shot down):

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/12/iraqraid030612

Nor is the war in Afghanistan:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030612/w061210.html

more car bombings in Palestine:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/12/gaza_missile030611

"really? you should hate to because don't provide any. Even when asked to Zagreb."

Erm, that's why I said I hate asking for them. Funnily enough, it's not easy to find a news report from four years ago on a Google search.

>The 'toppling of the statue' was as staged as the Oscar ceremony and that's well known.<

'Well known' hmmmm there you go again. Well known by who? How is it well known? Who staged it? How and why were the people convinced to do it? I

Is it so hard to believe that some people were actually happy to be free of a murderinf thug who had opressed them for over two decades?
Would you yourself not pull down a stature of a man who had murdered your family and made your life a living hell for the last two decades? Even if it was the dreaded americans who liberated you?



>Regarding events in 1991, and the betrayal of an Iraqi uprising, read Milan Rai's book, cited above.<

You mean the liberal activist, chomsky clone Rai? Ask his opinion on the Iraq/American issue.

Why not ask Pat Robertson {Christian Coalition} his Idea on Abortion and same sex marriage?

"You mean the liberal activist, chomsky clone Rai? Ask his opinion on the Iraq/American issue. "

So starbirts idea of a source must be conservative?

'Well known' hmmmm there you go again. Well known by who? How is it well known? Who staged it? How and why were the people convinced to do it? I

Is it so hard to believe that some people were actually happy to be free of a murderinf thug who had opressed them for over two decades?
Would you yourself not pull down a stature of a man who had murdered your family and made your life a living hell for the last two decades? Even if it was the dreaded americans who liberated you?

It was the Americans, not the Iraqis that pulled the statue down just watch the damn video clip that runs hourly on CNN. It has been widely reported by a variety of media outlets that the people present at the pulling down of the statue were mostly soldiers from the 3rd Armored, the press and some returned Iraqi dissidents working with the US troops as guides and interpreters. Most of the people in Baghdad were home hiding under the bed to avoid the shooting that was still going on. If you don't think this event was staged you may have to explain why there are so many different camera angles of the toppling available - it was staged just as the famous flag raising by the US marines on Iwo Jima's Mt. Tsubohatchi in world war 2 was staged (IN that case a new photographer for life, asked the marines to take down the flag and raise it again so he could get a picture. they were happy to oblige.)