h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

What I find interesting is that it was fanatical youngsters who helped overthrow the Shah in 1979 and now Iran's young people are the driving force behind reform and resistance to the Mullahs.

I think the Iranian Presidents "olive branch" to the West after 9/11 was an important step. We and the Americans (assuming they are willing to come on board) need to support the reformist politicians and build bridges, economically and politically, with Iran whilst making the case for a crackdown on terrorism.

Iranian government and dissention:
http://www.macleans.ca/xta-asp/storyview.asp?viewtype=search&tpl=search_frame&edate=2003/05/12&vpath=/xta-doc1/2003/05/12/world/59121.shtml&maxrec=96&recnum=6&searchtype=BASIC&pg=1&rankbase=170&searchstring=iran

As far as the terrorist link goes, I must clarify thay when I say jihad, that includes Israel but not the domestic terrorism Bush is talking about. If he wants to invade for Israel, so be it but there is little or no support by Iran for al-Quaida that is documented.

Thanks for the link, anhaga! There has yet to be any official mention of any of this on the NZ news media!

Zagreb, laddie, are you aware how patronising you sound?
Yes, I *am* anti-American, but I have become that way because of Bush's actions, and those of his henchmen.
There's plenty to back up allegations against the USA, nothing but spite and rumour to back up allegations against the French...

Della, I don't want to be rude, but regarding patronising, you should really take a look at that plank in your eye that your prophet mentioned. You have an annoying habit of accusing me of being "naive" simply because I won't subscribe to or agree with your world view (which is of itself blinkered, in my opinion).

Zag

Hey, folks, let's keep it non-personal! We should all be able to describe and support how we feel without personal comments, n'est pas? I've failed at that now and then but I always manage to steer myself back onto the track.

I agree zoomer. Not to meantion no one lasts long on this thread, if nieve or shy!

I apologise, Zagreb, for applying the word 'naive' so free;y, but it does seem to me sometimes that you simply take any news item from the USA at face value...

Well, then that's *him* isn't it? At least the two of you back up what you say with quotes, a lot of people here make unattributed comments all the time. If the source is off, don't blame the messenger, provide an opposing view.

if that sounds a little harsh, I am suffering from a sore butt and it makes me short tempered.

clzoomer, I will endeavour to provide a source when I can, and *not* to get personal!

*waves*

The Mullahs and the majority of the people in Iran are one denomination of Islam and Al'Quaida are another. I think its the Iranians are Sunni and Al'Quaida are Shi'ite.

Going to a school with a fairly strong Shi'ite Islamic contingent, I know some people who sympathise with Bin Laden's goals but not his methods. Amongst those goals is the elimination of the Sunni(?) branch of Islam, which is seen as heretical. Another is the restoration of an 'Islamic State', ie. the Ottoman Empire. Ironically, Iran is the closest thing to their Islamic State in existence at the moment.

just a few more news stories:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030528/w052810.html

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030528/w052816.html

I thought I ought to check that up, and it seems I did get them the wrong way round:

Iran is apparantly Shiite:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/790877.stm

whereas Bin Laden and Al-Quaeda (yes, I've been spelling it wrong all along by the looks of things) are Sunni:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1551100.stm

To say that Bin Ladin is Sunni is perhaps a bit of an over generalization. He is a Wahabi and certainly is not representative of Sunni Muslims as a whole:

http://home.bip.net/hyla/wahabia/03.htm

Very, very insightful. I had no idea it was a complex as all that, which is typical I suppose. If only it was as easy to solve as it is to understand. One thing, I really can't see any justification for invading Iran when it is struggling slowly but successfully toward a more liberal government and it has elections.

*If he wants to invade for Israel, so be it but there is little or no support by Iran for al-Quaida that is documented.*

Damn Iran for not keeping proper records.

I hope that was humour. Are you willing to believe the statements of your government without proof? Hasn't it become obvious that even with the little they provided, there are several truck sized holes in the reasons given to invade Iraq? Forged documents and unsubstatiated reports from government organisations were enough for Bush apparently, but just go back a few pages on this thread to see that a lot of people don't think that they *were* enough. It is quite simple really as the links immediately above show, and I am glad they have made it clear. al Quaeda is Wahabi Sunni and Iran is Shiite so a link between them would have to be made in order to cancel out the obvious lack of interplay that difference would make.

Alots has happened in a small space and I'll have to come back to those links. While leaving this bookmark (busy person at the moment) I'll respond to something small and easy.

"*The only option left for the US is a return to dirty wars.*
When did they ever get out of that business after Korea?"

While that is a good point zoomer. By my comment I was refering to dirty as in an absence of open military conflict. dirty as in CIA ventures like those in asia and central america where arms and money and influence are coupled with local citizens (as cannon fodder). The ventures where the involvement is (usually) denied and the truth is extracted many years later through the freedom of information act.

oh and

*I hope that was humour. Are you willing to believe the statements of your government without proof? Hasn't it become obvious that even with the little they provided, there are several truck sized holes in the reasons given to invade Iraq? Forged documents and unsubstatiated reports from government organisations were enough for Bush apparently, but just go back a few pages on this thread to see that a lot of people don't think that they *were* enough. It is quite simple really as the links immediately above show, and I am glad they have made it clear. al Quaeda is Wahabi Sunni and Iran is Shiite so a link between them would have to be made in order to cancel out the obvious lack of interplay that difference would make.*

calm dowm CL before you have a apoplexy. It was a joke.

Starbirth would also like to congradulate his northen brothers for coming on board the 'star war' program.......