h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

'Sorry' said the bar man,'you can't all sit together to talk about things over a quiet drink here. You have to go down the road to the Nags head and sit at tables with different people that youve never met before. Company policy.'

>>> 'Sorry' said the bar man,'you can't all sit together to talk about things over a quiet drink here. You have to go down the road to the Nags head and sit at tables with different people that youve never met before. Company policy.'

Not *quite* accurate...

It should read:

'Sorry' said the bar man,'you can't all sit together to talk about things over a quiet drink here. You have to go to the next table. Company policy.'

Which means that you can stay within the same structure (ie the Pub/BBCi) where people of a similar mindset gather to chat. Not everyone in the building may want to discuss what you're discussing. It's just like a no-smoking zone - it's all about consideration.

If you want change, tell us why h2g2/DNA is a great structure in which debate can flourish. BBC bashing will get you nowhere.

Trust me on that one.

What there's a no smoking area on Hootoo?

Where? Might do my lungs some good if I can find it.

Actually, though I agree that BBC-bashing is counter-productive and an overreaction, I think the analagy is quite fair Ashley.

It's not, as you rightly point out, about freedom of speech, censorship or other such emotionally-charged malarky. But it IS about usability and community cohesion.

Firstly, there are technical reasons why people dislike moving to the messageboards - difficult to track conversations, slower, different navigation, lack of a journal, etc.

Then there are community-related reasons. As all the users and the staff are aware, 'h2g2 is a unique community' with its own vibe, ethos, and so on. This is a positive thing, and part of what makes the community and the site so successful. Other DNA sites, and specific messageboards, have their own, different communities (collective has an emerging vibe, and several messageboards alse have established communities). Part of the whole community thing is the ability to have wide and varied discussions with people you either know or who are part of the same kind of community. Having to discuss a topic like the war, which is such a huge issue which affects everyone, on a seperate messageboard, breaks the community vibe by forcing users into a place where they know few people, and have less of shared community feel with the other users. People want to talk to other people within the same community. Evidence of this comes from (unsuccessful) attempts to create 'h2g2-refugee' threads on the Great Debate messageboard. It really is very difficult to seamlessly continue war conversations from h2g2 on the great debates messageboard.

Finally, it's not even the case that there are specific 'war-threads' which can be easily seperated from the rest of the community conversations. The war topic can easily crop up in unrelated conversations - and this happens frequently. Whether you're talking about music, the oscars, other political issues, or the price of houses, it's completely unnatural and a pain to have to stop and divert the conversation as soon as war is mentioned or the topic comes up.

--

Phew. So there it is. I think it's useful to define exactly what it is people are unhappy about with this policy and why and how the situation can be rectified. I think most people would agree with things like needing to make sure casualy names are leaked, and so on - that's not the issue - it's just the implementation that's the problem. So let's try and work together to solve this as the positive community we are - these summary articles are a good start.

"Which means that you can stay within the same structure (ie the Pub/BBCi)"... Sorry, Ashley, but the structure that I, personally, am comfortable in is DNA. The "company line" that BBCi is one coherent structure and users should be equally "comfortable" wherever they go in it doesn't really hold up under scrutiny.

I certainly back up what Frankie and Peet have both said it is one of those things that especially some of us old timers are used to is the fact that we have grown used to the changes that h2g2 gas gone through since all that was here were fields of goo. I find myself starting to post at times and then thinking can I complete it. And it is not becuase I am going to give anything away, or be derogatory, just that I was about to mention the unmentionable in another context.

It has limited the times I can post as I have to sit and think about postings which when I amn trying to senak them untop here normally during quiet times a=t work I just cannot do. If I want to make a statement I take tiem out and write to the papers of the BBC new forums but when I want to realx I prefer to be here among the community as myself, not out in the big bad world where I am politically active to a very high degree. It is part of what I want to relax from in a jokey way but even that is being excluded from us. No relaxation!!!! No cry!!!

I found Ashleys tone patronising in the extreme since when did having a point of view about one particular policy constitute bashing an entire corporation. Hardly anarchy is it?

>>> But it IS about usability and community cohesion.

As ever, Frankie you have hit the nail on the head. I've said this elsewhere, but what is not being used to its full effect in this matter is the Community cohesion that we all know exists. There are a lot of people who are saying this, that and the other but contributing very little. Armchair Revolutionaries are very good at getting themselves heard, but reluctant to do anything positive to implement change.

>>> ... the structure that I, personally, am comfortable in is DNA.

Fantastic - use this feeling to comment on the proposal on why DNA is the perfect vehicle for debate.

>>> ... especially some of us old timers are used to is the fact that we have grown used to the changes that h2g2 has gone through since all that was here were fields of goo.

As old timers (what does that make me then), you should all be aware of the full power of the machine you are using. Use this power to implement change, that way you can have your cake and eat it. Use your experience wisely... others can learn from your example.

The proposal is coming along nicely, add to it, tweak it, make it a stellar piece of work. Then at least you can say you have done your utmost and made the most of a powerful piece of technology.

the bar analogy should read not the next bar down the road, or the next table but, you have to go to some errant city where the owner of the bar has a corprate office and the bar is no longer a bar but a coffee house full of people in a completely different mindset.

i am still wondering when Ashley will take the trouble to reply to my comments.Instead of replying to the people who came on later as if I wasn't there.

I was away for a couple fo days - I will come back to your comments anon. Please bear in mind that this debate is one of the *many* things we are working on in-house.

>>> I found Ashleys tone patronising in the extreme since when did having a point of view about one particular policy constitute bashing an entire corporation. Hardly anarchy is it?

I'm sorry if you found it patronising, it wasn't meant to be. Your point of view is valid, but then so is mine. You are free to disagree with me as I am with you.

From my point of view your posting came across as a BBC-bash; you say you can't talk about the war on BBCi - you can, just not on h2g2 - yet.

'you say you can't talk about the war on BBCi - you can, just not on h2g2 - yet.'

Any news on when 'yet' will be?

There are important issues going on that surround this war, and I would like to be able to discuss them without fear of censorship.

Thanks,

Ste

The 'yet' is in the hands of those higher up the food chain. A lot of it depends how you the Community use the DNA model.

So, we are being watched then?

Oh yes - there is a world outside these virtual walls. It has ears, eyes and the occasional sting in the tail

*gulp*

Who is actually going to make this decision? Is it from the Director General, or what?

Ste

Hello there all,

Policy decisions (including this one) aren't made by any one person - a group of people are monitoring the situation. It really is out of our hands - however, we have fed back all of your comments to those responsible.

I'm sure you'll appreciate that this is a very sensitive issue and much as we'd like to provide you all with definite announcements about when these discussions can commence on h2g2 we just can't. However, if we are given the go-ahead you will of course be the first to know.

Thanks,

Natalie

Thanks Natalie,

I'll try to be more patient. I'm glad the italics seem to understand our frustration.



Ste

Not sure if all that's not more "Animal Farm" than "Big Brother"...

Anyway, can we discuss Iraq now? Though I do presume we have to avoid discussing Syria and North Korea.

That's the trouble with drawing a line in the sand, eventually the tide comes in.