h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I remember moving schools, and on my first day at the new school being asked to read some Latin prose. The class fell about laughing as I had been trained to pronounce V as W. My new schoolmates had never been exposed to this and thought I was winding up the Latin Master - I gained much kudos for this and henceforth everyone changed to this "newspeak".
John

This one had more or less gone out of fashion amongst all my contemporaries in the late 70s, early 80s. Many friends, no matter which school, learnt to use a 'v' sound and only one of the masters at my school would occasionally revert to a 'w' when reciting poetry.

Worth pointing out that church latin is considerably different. A striking example is 'caelis', which is 'kighliece' (k - igh as in high - iece as in niece) in classical pronunciation and 'chayliss' in chruch latin.

I think what finally put the end to the use of W as V was Sellars and Yeatman in 1066 and all that (or it's successor "And now all this") where they pointed out that the Romans left Britain because someone taught them this pronunciation and instead of Caesar's words being Veni, Vidi, Vici the Britons realised that the Romans were really Weany, Weady and Weaky. They fell about laughing and the Romans left in shame.

While the historical detail of this may not be absolutely accurate there was enough truth in it to make all the Latin masters realise how silly the new pronunciation was and it vanished like snow off a dyke.

And, of course, there's Veni, Vidi, Vici - Using the Life Of Brian like 'Wayny, Weedy, Weeky' instead of the more common, and slightly tougher sounding, 'Venny, Veedy, Veechy'.

Ahh. Tom got there first. Oh well.

VoV !!!!

Thanks Dan. It's the first time I have ever been anywhere NEAR first in anything to do with latin in over 40 years

Church or 'Vulgar' Latin follows Italian pronunciation and more or less marks a stop on the change from classical Latin into modern Italian. This includes using a 'ch' sound for the 'c' as an earlier commentor mentioned, when it precedes 'i', 'e', 'ae' or 'oe'; and the English 'v' sound for 'v' instead of 'w' and a soft 'g' when a g precedes an 'e' or 'i'. Thus your use of the 'v' is merely the movement from the classical to the vulgar pronunciation. And vulgarity usually sets schoolboys or regular TV viewers to laughing. Although I do not know how they know for sure which pronunciation the Romans actually used in Classical times. They could be pretty vulgar fellows when they rolled up their sleeves and got down to it.

However it happens, the info given in the Entry is accurate - but fascinating to hear everyone's thoughts and facts! Have some ...

However it happens, the info given in the Entry is accurate - but fascinating to hear everyone's thoughts and facts! Have some ...

mumble mumble gulp Thanks (good thing there isn't a smiley). Have some

Alas the only thing I use my Latin (and a very small smatter of Greek) for nowadays is the pronunciation of plant or animal names.

Mind you the basics of grammar were better taught in Latin than in the English class but I suspect that is true of almost any language.

France is keen on teaching French grammar as a matter of curriculum - but not latin!

Thanks for backing me up Whoami? and thanks for subbing the entry .

The article is correct as this is the pronounciation I use every week.

Just to keep you informed, I'm planning on writing some more Latin-related entrys and I *might* turn them into a university project.

:x --

If you do decide to make a Uni Project, then you might like to hold off and not submit them to Peer Review, but instead hold them back for the Uni. If you do write a Uni Project, I'd be more than happy to be the project Sub-Editor. Congrats on an excellent entry, have some more ...

Whoami?

Yes, I was planning on not submitting them to PR, but I thought that I'd better 'test the water' first to make sure people like latin! Thanks for the offer to be the sub for the project but it probably won't materialise for a long time yet. I should have more time at the end of term though, so I'll see.

:x --

Problem with end of term for me is that I have more time, less internet connection (56k not ADSL-equivalent)...

Count yourself lucky having ADSL at all. I use 64k ISDN all the time from home.

:x -- slighty

it's actually a T1 shared LAN connection - bliss when no-one else is using it

Our Latin teacher always had us use 'w' instead of 'v'. She said that it was more 'elevated'. So, we had "salwete Magistra" and "walete Magistra" at the beginning and end of class. It actually reminds me of Pontius Pilate's speech impediments in the "Life of Brian" (which incidentally are also funny in German - "Wirft ihn auf ten Poten!").

While talking to an Italian bloke the other week, I brought the subject up and he said that he'd never heard of the use of 'w' instead of 'v' and that they all spoke "church Latin" there. As you've noted, it's difficult to tell how they spoke in classical times so it's just one of these conundrums that have been left behind to provide an agreeable diversion for linguists.

My Latin Teacher, one Mrs M, did the same.

I don't believe this is a matter of conjecture. I'm sure there is evidence from Latin poetry about the [w] pronunciation. I imagine that the working classes started using [v] instead ([w] is an inherently unstable sound), since all modern Romance languages pronounce 'v' as [v] (OK, except Spanish).

In addition to Church Latin, there is the standard English pronunciation of Latin words, where soft 'c' is pronounced [s] and the vowels are as in English. This is now losing ground to a more 'European' style of pronunciation, with e.g. 'nisi' in 'decree nisi' pronounced as 'neesee'. Anyway, it was a great article. I intend to write a couple myself one day.