h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Gee, I'm so sorry that I missed this in PR. It's a marvelous subject for an entry, and reasonably well done, but I would have voiced some small concerns:

[An 'Anglophile', as its root words suggest, is someone who has a fascination or obsesssion with England—or, more generally speaking, the United Kingdom.]
The suffix -phile comes from the Greek word for love, but in this case would be taken as brotherly love, friendship or affection, rather than fascination or obsession. A bibliophile has a general appreciation for books, but an obsession would go much deeper.

[... because America was, of course, founded on the basis of gaining independence from Britain.]
This could be more accurately refined, because America (or, the Americas) consist of far greater territory than the United States of America. It includes Canada, Mexico, Panama, Brazil, etc.

So, rather than referring to 'Americans', it would better suit to refer to U.S. citizens, if that is what was meant; and to the United State, U.S., USA, or some similarly specific description.

Yes, they have a song called 'America the Beautiful', so they are in large part to blame for the dilemma. You may notice, though, that their national anthem, 'The Star Spangled Banner', contains no mention of 'United', 'States', or 'America', but refers to the country only by a general description of the country's flag.

Thanks for the comments!

In PR we had a discussion about whether the word "obsession" was appropriate there, and decided to leave it in, but I certainly appreciate that it's also not entirely accurate.

As to the use of "America": in the USA, it's usually assumed that if you just say "America," you mean this country, whereas you'd say "North America" or "the Americas" if you meant the continent or pair of continents. I thought that since I'd heard many British people call the US "America," it's the same way there--but maybe that was one idiom I missed!

As an American, I'm less than satisfied with the "Star-Spangled Banner" as far as national anthems are concerned. Americans have this preternatural obsession with their country's flag that makes it more about the flag than about the values of the country or the people who live there. I'd propose "This Land is Your Land" as an alternative national anthem.

I have to say everyone I know would assume you meant the USA if you said America.

Maybe they would assume it, but it's still not accurate. "America" was not founded. The United States of America were.

You can say "Germany" and everyone knows what you mean, but if you're referring to the founding of this nation you'll need to call it the German Empire, if you're referring to its current constitution, the Federal Republic of Germany...

But the scope for confusion with just "America" is greater, as that's also the name of the continent.

It's even more complicated with, er, well, is it the UK? Britain? Great Britain? The British Isles?

Which, incidentally, is why, when people around here ask me where I'm from, I just say 'London'. It's so much easier.

While I agree that, strangely enough "Americans" are generally understood to be from the US, "America" to me is a continent.

But here, newspapers and other "official" sources will always say "US-Amerikaner" when talking about US citizens, to be clear.

In the UK, the USA can be called America. This is 100% acceptable. Perhaps in other parts of the world it is not. Howeverm h2g2 is a British resource, and not a German one. I am happy for the UK to be called the United Kingdon/UK, but if you wish to refer to us as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland... feel free.

My country relatives always say 'England', which is not up-to-date at all. (They would expect Scottish people to say they were from Scotland, not Great Britain.)

The reason? These people's nomenclatural customs come from the time when their ancestors came over here to what was *not* the US of A, but a colony - say, Carolina (before it was split up to keep them from fighting), or Georgia (a debtors' colony), etc.

Great Britain didn't exist in the 17th Century, and the ignorant gits never caught up...slow newspapers and a low literacy rate.

It's like the fork business - we developed different habits with the newfangled thing.

Australians are lucky - their country is also a continent. This avoid arguments.

Cyborgia: when there's no scope for confusion, fine.

But the sentence about Canadians sometimes being mistaken for Americans threw me, at least.

I take it you'd prefer h2g2 to be an elitist "British resource", but that's not what hootoo's all about. I'm sure you'll figure that out, if you hang around.

That's a very interesting linguistic difference, Mala, since in French the adjective form is "americain(e)." I wonder what it is in non-European languages, and whether it's influenced by the history of those countries' relationships with the US at all.

Well, Amerikaner is understood to be an American in the sense you're using (except when it's a pastry).

But "Amerika" is a continent, the country is "die Vereinigten Staaten [von Amerika]" or "die Staaten" or "die USA" (sometimes even pronounced as a word, Oosah). I've heard people use just "Amerika", too, of course, but it's considered quite vague.

We'll call you Amis, too, which is sometimes but not always the same as the French word. Hence also "Amiland" and things like that.

Interestingly enough, Amerika is generally understood to be the territory now occupied by Canada and the USA (and formerly a lot of different colonies), but people don't usually use it to encompass Mexico. I'm fairly sure a lot of people believe that's in South America

With reference to whether or not the term 'American' or 'U.S. Citizen' should be used.....

For years, whenever I met someone with a north American accent, I would instinctively ask them if they were American. Half the time they would say 'Yes' and the remainder would more likely reply 'No, I'm Canadian'.

I began to feel sorry for our Canadian friends who probably hear that same question from other non-north Americans so I decided in future to always ask any north American sounding people I met if they were Canadian, out of some wierd sense of equalising respect. Half the time they would answer 'Yes' and the other half they would answer 'No, I'm American'. I have yet to hear anyone answer 'No, I'm a U.S. Citizen'.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Speaking of which, I have a friend who's Canadian, and she told me point-blank that she doesn't at all like the idea of "American" or even "America" encompassing Canada as well as the U.S. She's perfectly happy with "America" meaning the U.S. and not Canada. So it truly mystifies me that the English keep insisting that the right way to do it is for "America" to include both America /and/ Canada. Really, /that's/ what would introduce confusion, because you've got one word that would stand for two separate countries, instead of two words for two separate countries.

Anyway.......



~*~Americans have this preternatural obsession with their country's flag that makes it more about the flag than about the values of the country or the people who live there.~*~

YES!!! YOU UNDERSTAND!!!! *Hugs her!*



~*~I'd propose "This Land is Your Land" as an alternative national anthem.~*~

But blah. "This Land is Your Land" wouldn't be suitable at all.

[It's even more complicated with, er, well, is it the UK? Britain? Great Britain? The British Isles?]

The British Isles are all the islands off Europe that are considered geographically British. This includes the island of Ireland and the Isle of Man, for example. The largest of these islands is called Great Britain. That's the one that includes England, Wales and Scotland.

The United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is the 'political state', which includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, aka Ulster. The Republic of Ireland, or Eire, is an independent political state from the UK and so is the Isle of Man.

Geographically they are all Britain but I don't think anyone from Eire would appreciate being called a Brit.

GEE (really big 'gee' this time!), I certainly didn't expect an apology about missing this in PR would create such a varied and interesting discussion!

Hi, Echo!
I'm glad to hear that a discussion on 'obsession' took place. As long as the word was vetted, I'll accept the result of the final edit.

I've always found it just a bit arrogant that U.S. citizens appropriate the term 'Americans' as referring to their populace. I guess it makes sense when one considers that the continent was inappropriately, but originally, named after Amerigo vesupucci (spelling is probably wrong there). Each colony was an American Colony for some time to come. But, with dis-united states like Alaska and Hawaii, maybe it's time they drop the whole 'united states' part and find a name for their country. Mayby something like Malobar. They seem pretty popular over there! (that's just a take-off on Burma's new name of Myanmar, so don't hit me!)

'This Land is Your Land' would be another fine choice, as I'm a Woody (and Arlo) Guthrie fan; but have you noticed that it's lyrics also skip any reference to America or United States?

In a half-hearted defense of the SSB, the song is really not so much about the flag, but of the unflagging resilience of the fort's defenders. Historically, surrender is signalled by lowering one's flag. That is the reason for the poignancy of the Iwo-Jima statue of the soldiers desparately raising a fallen flag, so that it's meaning is not mis-interpreted as defeat.

Gosho: Would that be London Ontario, London Kentucky, or London Ohio?!

All the discussion points bore healthy discussions of the concepts. I appreciate that the H2G2 site has had to impose some standards, like British english over 'American' english. I am reminded, however, that DNA's original purpose was to create an 'Earth Version' of the guide, not an Anglo-centric version. I think we do need to be as specific as the language allows when passing entries from PR into the EG.

Yes, many are comfortable with 'Americans' being a euphomism for United States Citizens; but, like newspapers, we need to remember to be held to a higher degree of specificity, like when they put 'alleged' before any criminal accusations until a trial has determined whether guilt has been proved.

Thanks again, ALL!

It's not so difficult actually. The full name of the country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (there is also a bit about the commonwealth but that is very rarely mentioned). The full name is a bit of a mouthful even for us Brits so it gets shortened to the UK, or Britain. The phrase British Isles refers to the 200+ odd islands that make up the United Kingdom (of Great Britain). Great Britain is another way of referring to the entire kingdom except in this case it refers again to all the islands that make up our little nation! So there you have it.

I can't help but notice that newspapers also refer to United States Citizens as "Americans."

Yes, there's that arrogance I was mentioning.

BRITISH newspapers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8134410.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8164210.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8167671.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/34cf95c7-4be9-4efd-a48a-c2ea4a0bb114

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2009/07/schism_is_not_a_christian_act.html