A Conversation for Gabriel Urbain Faure - the Composer

Comments (from Kes)

Post 1

Kes

OK. This is coming together very nicely, and will fit well with the covering article about this period of French music. I think it won't be too hard to integrate the "extra" text items ... as long as it doesn't over-extend the entry, Just a couple of specific suggestions. What a bout a short section on his family & love life? Essentially a chronology, so the reader can compare it with his works. I think a lot of the detail you have collected will have to be omitted, though, otherwise it would get too long smiley - sadface

For a comparison of more fully orchestrated works, I would go for the obvious (Wagner), but would include a couple of lesser known points .... The works differ not only in richness of orchestration, but also in technical skill ... one could argue that Fuare showed greater skills in some ways. For example, Wagner uses a lot of 7ths and 9ths, but they are always "straight" discordant harmonies, whereas Faure is able to resolve them gently and with subtlety. You might suggest that this technique was passed on to Ravel, who used it when integrating jazz chords (7, 9, 11ths) into his work in a way quite unlike that employed by Debussy.

Worth perhaps saying that Faure is an archetype of the tradition of continuity in French music .... Saint Saens to Faure to Ravel .....


Comments (from Kes)

Post 2

Seth of Rabi

Just some minor additional thoughts

Wagner was certainly master of the heavy artillery, but was he a real all-rounder? I think he lacks imagination and lightness of touch in the lighter textures. For me the masters of orchestration at the time were Berlioz and Rimski-Korsakov. I would have added Saint-Saens but he often bottled out when he really needed the big guns.

Reference to the flattened 7th in Faure's melodic line is great but perhaps the influence is modal folksong rather than Gregorian chant. The 2nd subject of Vaughn-Williams Greensleeves Fantasia is another excellent example - could this be evidence of French influence on the English 'cowpat' er..sorry 'pastoral' School?

I've had some difficulty myself in finding anything to say about a 'French School' prior to 1870. The French establishment was Halevy, Auber and Thomas. The people our project is interested in were all waiting in the wings and composing very little. Franck and Saint-Saens were 'at Church', Gounod was holed out with his German friends most of the time. Bizet and Berlioz were out wandering in the wilderness, and soon to pass away to another place. I don't think any of these people were united in any sense whatsoever. It was their coming together after 1870 that made the date so special the 'French School' just appeared with the founding of the Societe Nationale.

Hope this helps smiley - ok


Comments (from Kes)

Post 3

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Wow...


Well these comments are great, and helpful, but they really are quite a lot more in depth than I know how to get! I mean, where rudimentary analysis is concerned, I am okay, but that├Ęs as far as I get, and as for being able to compare styles, I think other than some slightly vague references to the few musicians I am very familiar with, I would be lost... If I'm going to go into musical analysis, I think I'm going to need some very specific stuff... ?


Comments (from Kes)

Post 4

Kes

For this project, I think we're presenting an overview, so I wouldn't worry about too much detail (or too much depth). I reckon it is worth mentioning the contrast between French Opera and the Wagner "bells & whistles" style .... also, the existence in France of the light opera "stream" which doesn't exist in Germany at the same time. If we want to, we can always add an in-depth analytical article (taking on a couple of specific operas) later .... outside this pfoject's timeline. Do you feel OK about that approach?


Comments (from Kes)

Post 5

Kes

Another thought, Lady K ....
Check what's already in the "French Opera" draft entry ... A546211 -- you could perhaps just refer to that for the opera side .... then leave your piece focussed on Faure's music overall - that would be simpler smiley - smiley


Comments (from Kes)

Post 6

Kumetanzuka the capricious

*phew* thanks kes! I think I should be able to manage that, yes. I should be good to go within the next couple days, provided I can get my @$$ in gear (I wonder if they'll edit that out...) smiley - smiley and as soon as I get it finished, I will post the revised entry.

~8~


Comments (from Kes)

Post 7

Kes

Fantastic! Just post here when you've updated ... or if you need any help. Great going!


Comments (from Kes)

Post 8

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Ummmm... okay. Underneath I am rather quite very upset, but I'm going to remain calm and slowly ask...
why... did... this... article... get... MODERATED away!?!

I came to add some of the modifications I've made and found it gone. I realize I can just reinstate it, but I would really like to know what made them remove it so that I can change whatever it is...

*attempting to keep my promise to remain calm*

I don't know how much of this spontaneous removal sans explanation I can take.

~8~


Comments (from Kes)

Post 9

Kes

S**t! I don't know! I will ask the "Powers" at the Uni. Two thoughts (things that get the Moderators going):
- Did it have much alien foreign language (French) in it? (They don't like what they don't understand).
- Did it quote a lot from copyright works?

(My own memory of the articles says "No" to the above, but you know it better than me).
I'll see what I can find out, and report back. Meantime, don't let the Thought Police spoil your day. They ain't worth it! smiley - hug Don't panic! smiley - smiley


Comments (from Kes)

Post 10

Kes

Hi, Lady K.

Had a carefully chosen word. I'm sure it's a complete coincidence, but try the Faure entry again. By the time your on-line it should be back. Yell if it's not!

Looking at the entry, I think you can remove the "Extra info" heading and comment smiley - winkeye ..... I was trying to think of a better heading for the "CONCLUSION??" section .... I could only come up with a very tame "The later years" ... Alternatively. maybe if you make another mention there of how Faure helped Ravel, it could be titled "Handing on the torch" , or something less corny!

Hope you're feeling better now smiley - smiley


Comments (from Kes)

Post 11

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Kes,

thanks for the moral support and comments. I do feel better now. I reinstated the entry. Dunno whether they'll take it out again, but I removed everything I could find that might be considered offensive (that is, the notes). They might have considered my quoting directly from that website in the notes a violation. Also, my info does come from a couple copywrighted sources. But I don't remember there being any direct quotes so it wasn't exclusive info...

I retitled the end section and took out all the extra notes. I did that before I read your response though so if you want to check it out and tell me what you think? I shall remove the comment about moderation next time I input changes. smiley - smiley

I have lots more information I could input, so I suppose I'll have to sift through and pick up the important stuff. I intend to put some of it in the last section as it is a little short and not very fulfilling. Other than that and the links, I guess I just have to finish that comment on his orcehstral and operatic styles in the upper sections...

Thanks again smiley - smiley

~8~


Comments (from Kes)

Post 12

Kes

OK ... I'm still waiting for feedback on why it was moderated, but I think that the comments and references to websites are probably it. Should be alright with them gone. As soon as you're happy with it, I will "give" it to the sub-editor. Once it reaches her, it is safe from the Thought Police ... smiley - smiley

If it's removed again - tell me again, and I will yell even louder at the italics.
Keeping the faith ....


Comments (from Kes)

Post 13

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Thanks Kes, you're great! smiley - biggrin

I am just about to post the final copy of the article. That's right, c'est fini! If there's anything missing or needing change, feedback would be great. I have left the reference to Susan's site (the one you gave me with all the info) in because all of my direct quotes come from her pages. If this is a bad idea let me know... or if it needs to be in another format... I don't know. Anyhow, yes, next time you look, it should be up smiley - smiley

~8~


Comments (from Kes)

Post 14

Kes

Fantastic! I will check it through once more (probably tomorrow), then, unless I think of changes, I will tell the sub-editor. I'll post here when I've done that, so you're up to date. Thanks again - great contribution. smiley - smiley


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