A Conversation for Irrational Numbers
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Ow.
The Traveller Started conversation Nov 21, 2000
Okay, I only got halfway through this entry, because I could feel my head starting to explode.
So you can understand why I had to stop.
Otherwise, great article!
The Traveller
ISO-9001 Certified
Ow.
Bagpuss Posted Nov 21, 2000
Can't the guide provide a nice way to arrange mathematical equations? They just look ugly in this form. Good article, though.
Ow.
Calypte Posted Nov 21, 2000
Ah - proof by contradiction. The memories that brings back!! Great article, and I agree that it's a shame mathematical notation can't look better in the guide.
Ow.
Icarus Posted Nov 21, 2000
It's not very tidy, is it? Who needs to get talked to to get that fixed?
Ow.
Cefpret Posted Nov 21, 2000
I remember that two years ago I accidentially read an entry in a mathematical handbook about a measure how irrational(!) a number was. Curiously enough neither pi nor e made the race -- the most irrational number is the golden section (don't have its value here).
It's not a fancy from a master thesis, it's serious old lore of approximation theory...
Ow.
Cefpret Posted Nov 21, 2000
As far as the problems with formulas are concerned: Do you think it's worth writing guidelines for mathematical (or technical) typesetting in h2g2? I can't bring MathML to the Guide (others could) but at least we can give our formulas a more readable (and uniform) shape.
Ow.
Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) Posted Nov 21, 2000
Hi, thanks for your comments
I asked about mathematical notation. The towers say that should complicated notation be needed, we should use laTeX 2 to format it. It can then be converted to gifs quickly by the editors.
Ow.
Occasional Hieroglyphic, wanderer in search of the exoteric Posted Nov 21, 2000
Indeed Ow! Having never advanced to maths 'A 'level even, I do not expect to be able to understand this. Having said that; I DO!!!!!! Stunning. It's as clearly put as you could probably manage, I should think. Not that, in the end, it means anything to me in a practical everyday sense, but it helps show how strange our universe is.
Ow.
Icarus Posted Nov 21, 2000
I only understand it conceptually. If someone told me to apply it in a useful manner, I'd probably distract them and then run in the opposite direction. That's always been my problem with math. My response is usually along the lines of "That's interesting. What's it good for?" followed by the teacher either glaring at me or looking very confused. Ah well. Good entry.
Hi Arnia. How've you been?
Ow.
Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) Posted Nov 22, 2000
Ow.
bethinabirch Posted Nov 22, 2000
um, what? math isnt for anything? id like to see you fly in an airplane that someone designed without using calculus - good luck with that.....
Ow.
Mark Moxon Posted Nov 22, 2000
That's right. We don't have any short-term plans to incorporate mathematical XML into GuideML, but we can always put really nasty equations into GIFS and display them that way.
This one, though, is a really simple proof, and it works fine as it is, IMHO.
Ow.
Bagpuss Posted Nov 22, 2000
The proof is certainly understandable, I'd just like to see it looking nicer. Never mind, though.
Bethinabirch, you're taliking about applied maths, which isn't *real* maths.
Ow.
Mark Moxon Posted Nov 22, 2000
Always a tricky thing, making maths legible on the Web. There is no perfect solution that's easy to use...
Ow.
Icarus Posted Nov 27, 2000
What's the point of having something that can't achieve anything other than being itself? Or, to put a slightly less philosophical turn on it, if it isn't FOR anything, why is it?
Ow.
Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) Posted Nov 27, 2000
But Maths can be used for almost everything. However, the best and most widely used maths is developed entirely for its own sake. It is honed and refined by the decades and then very suddenly bursts into the sciences and arts.
Consider topology. It was first seriously developed by Poincare in the late 19th century to develop an answer to the question about the stability of the solar system. It needed a lot of work to build results, tools, methods and experts. By the end of the 90s, topology has become linked to almost all of maths from number theory to complex analysis.
Don't question what it is FOR. It is for nothing and yet can be used in everything.
Ow.
Icarus Posted Nov 28, 2000
So what you're saying is that eventually it finds a for, but not necessarily any time near its creation. Or am I missing the point completely?
Ow.
Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) Posted Nov 28, 2000
It always has a FOR. It is for its own sake. It is others who can move the methods around and use them for anything. They are completely application independent so what is useful in particle physics may also be useful in sound engineering.
Ow.
Icarus Posted Nov 28, 2000
I see. Or at least I begin to understand.
What was supposed to happen Saturday?
Key: Complain about this post
- 1
- 2
Ow.
- 1: The Traveller (Nov 21, 2000)
- 2: Bagpuss (Nov 21, 2000)
- 3: Calypte (Nov 21, 2000)
- 4: Icarus (Nov 21, 2000)
- 5: Cefpret (Nov 21, 2000)
- 6: Cefpret (Nov 21, 2000)
- 7: Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) (Nov 21, 2000)
- 8: Occasional Hieroglyphic, wanderer in search of the exoteric (Nov 21, 2000)
- 9: Icarus (Nov 21, 2000)
- 10: Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) (Nov 22, 2000)
- 11: bethinabirch (Nov 22, 2000)
- 12: Mark Moxon (Nov 22, 2000)
- 13: Bagpuss (Nov 22, 2000)
- 14: Mark Moxon (Nov 22, 2000)
- 15: Dogster (Nov 27, 2000)
- 16: Icarus (Nov 27, 2000)
- 17: Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) (Nov 27, 2000)
- 18: Icarus (Nov 28, 2000)
- 19: Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) (Nov 28, 2000)
- 20: Icarus (Nov 28, 2000)
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