h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Peer pressure is not something I have lots of time for. I don't generally tend to think that because other people do something, I should. But, I think its my right to choose, not my parents.
When I was about 17 my group of friends started pubbing & clubbing on a regular basis. My mother wasn't terribly pleased with the idea of underage drinking on my part, but she didn't try to stop me...
...my friends parents, however, didn't like the fact that our group of friends saw a good time as going out to the pub and having a few drinks, then going on to a club or something and dancing 'till 2, they always came to pick her up at around 11.30 or something. So when her 18th birthday came around, she said she was staying over at a friends house, and that they would probably go to the cinema- something her parents would allow- they didn't want to let her do what her peers did. This was a lie- of course we went to the pub, and had a great time. But my friend didn't want to have to be different, she wanted to choose herself, and I think she'd a right to, it just seems sad that her parents pushed her as far as lying to them, even on the day when she technically became an adult.

Yeah, being "one of the gang" and "fitting in" is v. important when you're a teenager.
One of the things I notice when I look around a group of teenagers is that everyone looks the same, almost. I try desperately to avoid this, as i value my individuality above just about everything else.
I'm not saying I'm a style slave, but i have a few smart outfits and suchlike, and occasionly i like to dress to impress people. It's all about my ego, I guess.

Beg to differ. In my year most of the kids look the same, yes, but there is a small grooup of us (inc. me) who make a point of being different to them; we don't dress in the outragious way that they do (perculiar adjustments to school uniform), hang out with most of them, etc.
"Young people these days, they're all the same as each other"
Phhhhrrrttt!!!

Exactly my point, did i give the wrong impression in my last posting?
I *meant* to say that there were certain small groups (cliques, cabals, whatever) who don't want to "fit in" with the "normal" teenage ethic (ie. swearing/gobbing is cool/hard, etc.)
The sickening feeling I feel when I encounter those people

Urrrrrrgggggghhhhh...

In America, at least, you can be anywhere in the country and the stereotypical teenager will haunt you. They will have their Abercrombie and Gap clothing and they'll be listening to band-of-the-moment (backstreet boys, in synch (sp?), britney spears, limp bizkit, and eminem who enjoy making fun of them all) which is the same everywhere thanks to the ubiquitous televison channel MTV. Not to say that all teenagers are like that, no no. But this group of them is the most widespread, and thus the percieved paradigm for us all.

It's true that American teenagers tend to be a trendy bunch. At the drop of a hat teenagers will buy/listen to/eat whatever everyone else seems to favor at the moment. Very prevalent in the teenage mind is the idea that if they don't behave a certain way, that they will be perceived as not cool, stupid, or even, unfortunately, gay, which is a very potent insult to someone who is still learning about sexuality.

Finding a root cause for this behavior is not an easy task. One could point to the human desire to belong to a group, which drives teenagers, as well as adults, into exhibiting a certain behavior which is typical of the sort of group they wish to belong to.

Others point to "greedy corporations," which perpeptuate the idea that one has to buy a certain brand of product to be considered normal and/or cool, in order to sell a product which has little use other than showing off that one is willing to pay large sums of money to be cool. Clothing makers such as Nike, The Gap, and DKNY come to mind.

Perhaps the cause is television, the method of delivery for various unproductive ideas, most in the form of popular television shows as well as commercials. Typically, the characters populating television shows have lives that are so exciting and happy that the viewers unconsciously (or consciously) take away the message, "If I want my life to be like that, I should behave that way. I'll start by changing the way I look to the way that person looks, then I'll make sure to own what that person owns, and associate with the same sort of people that person is surrounded with."

Which cause is it? While it's obvious that all three of these, as well as others, contribute to the problem, it's likely that no one factor or cause is to blame.

Another curious sort of behavior is teenagers' desire to be different from other people, as well as being part of a group. This paradoxical situation is easiest to see when looking at certain groups of teenagers, such as those labeled "Goths," "stoners," "those freaks," etc. Within those groups there seems to be the desire to be different, and the way to be different is to dress like everyone else in some social fringe group. While these teens will sneer at the "preppies," "jocks," or the "popular" group, who all display their social status by dressing alike, they have no qualms about wearing their own distinctive costumes. In other words, these teens choose to be different by all dressing the same way.

By the way, the above is meant to apply to American teens, though teens in other countries may possibly behave in a similar fashion.

*snaps agreement*

True. The trouble with American teen society, and the people who don't want to be enslaved to eventually become the various groups of steriotypical American adults are shunned. Many of them are quite intelligent, free thinking, and capable of doing great things, but because they are free thinking, they are mocked, taunted, broken, and held down.

It seems that American society attempts to destroy those that are some of the greatest among them.

Well, maybe that's the way in America, but I don't think it's all the same here in Holland. I have seen on several occasions that when you just be yourself, say what *you* think, not what the group thinks, wear the clothes that *you* like and so on, you'll get some kind of respect from all of the groups. I've been there, and when I was teen-aged (let's say 7 or 8 years ago), I found myself in the middle of all the groups but not actually "belonging" to one. Just hang around with the person (or group) that you feel like hanging out with at that time. Like I said, it worked for me.

Kheldar

That's not a major problem here. In Thailand and Japan the teenage girls do stick very tightly to their trends, mini skirts and huge shoes, but it is in no way harmful and here in Thailand being cool doesn't mean being rude or disrespectful. That's what I love about Asia. We're not split into very definite groups and we mix and mingle a lot. There is always that odd person in the grade who seems dumb or incapable of doing anything right, but they are usually well supported by the others and are not the subject of constant teasing. Many people will tease them, but others will object and be protective. No group is considered higher than the rest (although many think they are). The music trends do seem to revolve around Boy Bands and Teen Girl singers, but that is usual here too, along with the Teen Thai singers. The problem can be the rap and rock music that encourages all kinds of ism's (racism, sexism, etc).

This morning I read of a rather worrying study, which I think took place in the UK but I could be wrong.

Ten teenagers were shown pictures with three lines on of different lengths, and they had to put their hand up when whoever was running the experiment pointed to the longest line.

*But* nine of the ten had been secretly told before hand to go for the second option, regardless of whether it was the longest or not. The test was on the tenth- would he go with the one he *knew* was the longest, or follow the crowd in choosing the second option?

The first time, the nine who had been told put their hands up straightaway for the second option, although it wasn't longest. The tenth person looked a little unsure, but then followed suit.

The second time, they were reminded again that they had to put their hand up for the longest line... this time the tenth person took longer to come to a decision, but still felt the need to go with the group although he knew they were wrong.

That was done recently? It sounds like an exact copy of Asch's study in 1951. There have been many studies like that but most of them were in the 50's and 60's. We did one recently for an A-Level Psychology practical but we used opinions and subjective data tests rather than objective ones such as the lines. We asked a load of younger kids about their musical tastes and interests and then sent them into a room with four other stooges (apparently the optimum size for conformity incase anyone wondered )who had been prepared to say the opposite of what we'd already been told by the kids. Despite the fact that we expected high levels of conformity none of the subjects we tested changed their opinions and all thought that the other kids were either weird or they just didn't care what they thought. I don't know how useful that is in comparison terms because I would have said there was the same amount or more peer pressure today than in the 50's.

I do know peer pressure is still really rough today as I was given hell when I was 13 or 14 for being 'different' so I changed and became part of the 'cool' crowd when I was about 15 which made my life a lot easier. Having said there was still the 'hard' crowd who made everyone in the whole years life rough so I really think it's impossible to suit everyone all of the time. Then when I was about 16/17 I switched back to being 'me' and people accepted me for that so I think that whilst the level of peer pressure remains the same throughout your teens as you get older you start to get more respect for being yourself and it depends more on how you respond to the pressure than how much of it there is.

At the start of your teens you start new schools, experiment with new things and everyone is expected to be clones all doing the same all of the time, if you don't you get left out or bullied but then as you get older attitudes change.I think having experienced both sides of popularity I wouldn't actually say either was better, whether you go with peer pressure or not you still get hassles just in different ways.

1 interesting point though , more recently those in the 'cool' crowd have been bitching about each other (and the crowd has diminished in numbers) constantly and all their friendship bonds seem to have gone, it's easy to spot those who are true friends and those who are just trying to fit in. I'm lucky in that I managed to stay friends with everyone, both in the 'cool' crowd and those who weren't and it has to be said that I have much more fun now with those who aren't considered cool as they're not afraid to act as themselves rather than "Sweet Valley High stereotypes". Whereas with the other group we started clubbing at about 15 and went out to pubs even earlier and there was much more pressure within the group to be something you weren't. I've since been told by several of what was the 'cool' crowd that they really respect me for being able to handle both sides to the pressure and quite a few of them have said that they would have liked to have been able to have my way of thinking and be friends with everyone. Whilst this was news to me it does make you think about whether peer pressure actually exists or whether we make it ourselves. We believe that society expects us to conform to all these stereotypes provided by the media (especially the US media) and so we do, regardless of whether that is the case, it just depends at what age we do it to how it affects us. In my leaving book I had about 60 messages, probably 50 of which were sincerely written by true friends, in the 'cool' crowds leaving books there were about 15 messages half of whom I know were insincere as they have spent the past two years moaning about each other and saying how they can't wait to get away from each other. So in response to conforming to peer pressure in order to fit in, whilst it might seem necessary in your early teens as the years go on you'll be much happier being yourself as you'll end up with much more respect.

Just 1 final fact, the official figures for peer pressure and identity changes are as follows: At 11-12=full group identity, at 12-13= Full group with small individual identity, at 13-14=50/50 at 15-16=individual identity within a group and at 17-18= full individual identity.

As an actual American teenager I can add a bit of new light into this box. first off...yes, individuality is taking off and plumeting at the same time. You see... some people want to be as DIFFERENT as they possibly can! Others, want to be exactly like some image or some person on television. This is probably not new news. However...one thing I did not see mentioned was that many kids that hop onto the "cool" train of life are riding the life high. They think they are cool...they believe they are cool...therefor, it makes no difference to them what others think. What shocks me is that through many of the years the cool group has been the rude self-centered group. This has always caused me to wonder why! Why are the rude and childish physical brutes attractive and the snobbish "ewww get away from me" high squeeky voice desired? I know this is called major stereotype but I am in a US publc school and these people you see on Saved by the Bell and Teen movies such as "Can't hardly Wait" and "Scream" really do exist. It's true. Another thing which bothers me which I saw briefly mentioned is the fact that the absolute most common insult is "gay". It is no wonder the society grows against gay persons when a teacher who assigns a test is "gay" and the test itself is "gay" and the pen writing the answers is "gay" and the binder that broke when getting the paper for the test is "gay" and the boy that tripped is "a fag". One thing that I find that may be hurting this is that these groups of people and minorities are actually separating themselves on many levels. I don't mean the same thing as singles bars...I'm talking about just saying the "gay community". It seems to me that gay's are cutting themselves away from the world and have their own "community" they feel safe in. Why are they not the "human community"? If a wolf see's a lamb they will not like it. The wolf has a wolf community...the lamb has a lamb community. Thus... If a human "wolf" see's a gay "lamb" it will not like it. (I'm not saying gay's aren't human...don't get me wrong. I'm also not trying to be politically inccorect with the gays as lambs and others wolves...it's just an example...cope.) So, even though that may be a bit off topic rambling...I felt it important. *sigh*

Tinkerbell- I've no idea when the study was done, I just saw it quoted in a book which I read the other morning and have since had to give back. I never studied phychology.

Aaah it will be Aschs then, it's always being quoted everywhere to prove everything Psychology has many uses particularly in finding dodgy studies (not that Aschs was) which claim to prove something but which have been manipulated beyond belief so they don't actually resemble the original results. Not like my practicals of course...

I was a radical as a teen. I fitted in with a group of friends who didn't fit into any of the stereotypes at the time. I however freely was able to move from this group to my friends to the sports guys, being one myself. However at our ten year reunion it was very interesting about 50 of us turned up. And for the meal there were 5 tables. At one sat all the jocks, except me, at another the musos, at another the swats, at another all the cool kids from 10 years back, me I was at a table of misfits. To be honest though we did all mingle before and after but after 10 years we could still be split in the smae way.

Please don't blame parents' reasonable expectations for the lie a child tells in the course of skirting those expectations.

If she truly were the "adult" that her age supposedly indicated, she could have stood her ground and been truthful regardless of external, parental -or any other- pressures. I suggest she was not as mature as she'd like to believe.

Consider this: Just as a typical 18 year old tends to have more wisdom than does a 10 year old, so does a 40 year old have more wisdom than an 18 year old. This is not parental arrogance and oppression, it's human nature.

The trendies all seem to hate eachother deep down in my school. I think that if they spoke out, then they'd actually find out who theirselves are.

Bleh, you get captured by the Japanese in 1942. They ask you were the rest of your squadron is.

Do you -
a) "stand your ground and be truthful regardless of external pressures"?
b) lie through your teeth?

When we are very young, we always tell the truth, and assume everyone else is. As we mature, we realise that in many cases telling the truth is a downright stupid thing to do, and get better at telling when other people are playing loose and ready with the truth.

I would not condone lying constantly, even though I do it constantly and it's the only way to get through this sick, sick world of ours.

"...he's going to learn how to lie correctly, how to lay correctly,
how to cheat and steal in the nicest possible manner.
He will learn, amongst other things, how to enjoy
his enemies, and how to avoid friendships. If he's unlucky
he will learn how to love and give everything away
and how eventually, he'll end up with nothing."

- from "Schoolboy", by Brian Patten