A Conversation for Belgium

Update Forum: A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 1

sprout

Entry: update - Belgium - A2519840
Author: sprout - U192568

The original entry had a few flaws:

1) It didn't talk about the entire southern half of the country, apart from in the political bit.

2) It didn't mention the two most popular tourist destinations outside Brussels.

3) The currency section was out of date.

I presume the extensive list of contributors to the original entry, most of whom have Elvised, will be added later? I left a message on the entry, no-one replied.

Brussels needs doing next.

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 2

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

Um, one or two of those authors are still *quite* active on the site, and you really should let them know that you are updating the entry. And even among those that have elvised, the polite thing to do is drop a note -- we have had one person drop back from the elvis after having been left such a note already here in the update forum.

It's also a good idea to post the A# of the original entry -- here it is A297128, although it's worth pointing out that even the original appeared to have drawn from several different guide entries (which is why many of the extra authors were added).

There are quite a few conversation threads attached to the original entry -- do any of them contain information that should be added to the entry since it's being updated?

smiley - mouse


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 3

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

And I may be mis-remembering things, but it seems like one of the authors is someone who has previously had someone boggle an update of one of his EG entries, so it would seem especially important to involve the authors upfront in this case.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 4

Number Six

smiley - cool

There's an EG entry on Famous Belgians somewhere... I remember Just Zis Guy writing it.

smiley - mod


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 5

Number Six

Ah yes, here it is... A1038692. Famous Belgians.

smiley - mod


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 6

Gnomon - time to move on

Interesting. I'll have a good read of this later.

It's not just the Brussels motorways that are well lit. All the Belgian motorways are lit along their entire length.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 7

Sea Change

I don't see it as an improvement to force the reader to now follow a link to find famous Belgians.

I think the description of what the roads are like in the original is just the sort of thing that makes H2G2 'not just another encyclopedia'. It's not particularly insulting or contrary to BBC rules, so I don't understand the logic of omitting it.

I do wonder at your inclusion of the new information about space. I have been to a Belgian pavillion at a World's Fair and have certainly heard this PR about their roads. In that case, it was boasted that the entire country's roads were visible and the country's outline was clearly distinguished from the surrounding lands. I was delighted by this idea and wanted a postcard or poster, but when closely queried, noone working there (I actually came back the next day and asked further up their chain of command) had ever actually seen a space-photograph of their roads. I would call this an urban legend more than anything close to a fact.

The description of the beaurocracy in the original is interpretable as derogatory so a mild change of it is certainly welcome, but in doing so here it seems to my reading you have omitted the main idea. I think including this idea is important as it gives the reader an insight into the national character which isn't entirely explained by the Walloon vs Flemish section below.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 8

sprout

Good to see that there are a few people looking at the update forum.

I already have a link into Just zis Guy's famous Belgians - the problem with the original list was that they weren't all Belgians, and that in any case it is extremely subjective. I don't see what the added value of listing a few was/would be.

Bureacracy - thing is, having lived here for four years, I think it is a myth that Belgian bureacracy is any worse than UK or French bureacracy. More politicised, certainly, but not any less efficient. There are too many Ministers, but I explain why in the article. The link to the Commission, you're right, was derogatory.

Leaving a message on the PSs of all those that originally contributed. Some of them only contributed one line, and only one of them would appear to be subscribed to the entry... Nevertheless, I can do it.

The lit motorways - I think you're right Gnomon - the entire Brussels road network is rather well lit, but I think all the motorways are as well. The original comment about all the motorways being elevated only applies to some motorways in Flanders. While I'm thinking about roads I've just realised that I need to add something about the changing names on the signposts...

Comments on the entry - most were along the lines of - how can you write an article on Belgium without mentioning Ghent - which is a fair point, and is now reflected.

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 9

Gnomon - time to move on

I've seen space photographs of the world, and the outline of Belgium is very clearly visible because of the motorways. It's not just an urban legend. Of course, space starts about 10 miles up, so just about anything is visible from space.

As far as I can remember, the three brightest things in the world are the flares in the oil fields of Arabia, the Japanese squid fishing fleet and Belgium.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 10

Sea Change

Cool! The furious surfing you all hear me doing is me hunting for an image of this to keep!


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 11

Gnomon - time to move on

I've had a good read of it now.

I've only one comment on the content. I understood that the famous Mons/Bergen problem has been eliminated. Every town is now signposted throughout the country in the language that is spoken in the (destination) town. So if they speak French in Mons, then it is signposted as Mons everywhere in Belgium. But I could be wrong. This might be just a proposed plan.

Typos, spelling mistakes etc:

Missing full stop after football team.
There are no shortage of bars --> There is no shortage of bars
If, after all that alcohol you feel --> If after all that alcohol you feel
Liege --> Liège throughout, if you have the energy
Liégoises --> Liègoises
Mercxx --> Merckx
sixties and seventies --> 1960s and 70s
Tin Tin memorabilia --> Tintin memorabilia (I think)
Credit cards widely accepted --> Credit cards are widely accepted
poorly lit section --> poorly-lit section

smiley - ok


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 12

sprout

Thanks Gnomon

About a month ago I went to Liège, and that turned into Luik for a little while so it can't have been implemented yet. It's a good plan though! It's also a problem on the trains - the little electronic indicator runs in both languages in the Brussels Region, but only in French or Dutch when it is in Flanders or Wallonia - what would be the problem with leaving it in both languages all the time?

I'll pick up the rest of those typos.

I've contacted all those who worked on the first version and haven't emptied their page since.

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 13

Gnomon - time to move on

I think you should add all the original authors as authors of your entry.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 14

sprout

I thought that at the end of this process, the Italics pasted the new version on top of the old version, leaving all the old authors intact on the entry?

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 15

Number Six

It helps them if you do it so they don't have to, I think?

smiley - mod


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 16

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

No, doing it now doesn't affect what the italics have to do later.

But I would still add them on, as a matter of form and etiquette. This entry exists right now, and it includes writing by people other than yourself, and those people should be credited accordingly.

smiley - 2cents
Mikey


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 17

sprout

OK - Elvises (apart from DD and Cafram) added, typos corrected. There are one or two obvious links to add, which I will do later.

There is obviously more that could be said, but at some point, like Odyseuss' boat, it would cease to become an update...

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 18

Gnomon - time to move on

Your link to Brussels is wrong, pointing to a non-existent entry. It should be to A190090.


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 19

sprout

I've corrected this - thanks Gnomon. People interested in this thread might also want to look at the Brussels update for the full picture.

sprout


A2519840 - update - Belgium

Post 20

Smij - Formerly Jimster

So, how close to completion are we now?


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