h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Whew! OK, I know the sort of argument that's written in Capitals. I normally walk away from it. But I enjoyed the conversation that follows, so I'm here to join the discussion. Ste, I hope you don't mind: I've followed you here from the "Love Islam, Hate America" thread (aka the "Hate-Hate" thread).

I'll answer the last point first - deja vu attacks me, in the first person. I appreciate that that's still "someone else" to you, but I'm convinced! There's also no need to explain it by "mumbo-jumbo". I've had arguments on this line with other people, before I realised we were both of the same opinion but approaching it from different angles. If something exists, like deja vu, it needn't be magic: it could easily be a scientific fact we haven't yet got an explanation for. Before anyone tells me to boil my head, consider the solid belief from yesteryear of a flat planet.

Still here? Good!

Thankfully, most of the religious types of my social circle have given up on me. I'm married to a person of a different religion, and we plan to bring up any tiny Fennys with as much knowledge about as many religions as we can cram into them. Plus, my own new religion is Zero Intolerance, which I preach horribly boringly (and make no apology! So if I come across Intolerances, I Zero In on them and nag.) As you can see, I'm probably not the best person to aim attempts to convert or to argue with...

Sorry it's such a long post, but I have a lot to say, occasionally!

x x Fenny (preaching Zero Intolerance but never spamming)

Hello Fenny, good to have you on board. I don't mind that you are stalking me on h2g2, I do it to other people all the time

I totally accept your point about deja vu. I don't think it is acceptable to explain it with mere 'mumbo-jumbo' (must use that phrase more), although most of the time it usually is dismissed in that manner. I used to think that it could be explained away using some neural abberation of some kind, or even simple coincidence. I don't think this is the case anymore either. My wife comes from a line of women to whom spooky things happen to all the time. Her Grandma could tell who was calling her on the phone before she picked it up, almost without fail. You say that it is probably something that could be explained by science, just not yet as we don't understand what's fully going on. I think I have come to that conclusion too, and I am pretty damn confident that this is also the case with all phenomenon. But I'll leave a 0.0005% window of probability open that I'm wrong

I kind of sad that I don't have any Christian fundamentalists trying to convert me. I thoroughly enjoy arguing til I'm blue in the face with them. The most fun to be had is when Jehovas Witnesses dare to knock on my door. Two ran away from me once after I spent half an hour answering their questions and doubts on evolution.

Zero Intolerance? Love the idea. If I see anyone being racist/sexist/homophobic in chatrooms and forums on the web, I cannot help myself but to wade in and challenge what they are saying. In the most polite way possible of course.

Oops, rambling now...

Ste

"Religious Faith is above reason and logic"? Well, yes, I guess. It can neither be altered by it, nor explained by it. I suppose. It depends on whom you ask, really. Enough religious leaders have tried to explain Faith and Miracles in scientific terms, and some have been de-faithed by their own investigations, while others have become more convinced.

Jewish wise men sit and read the religious texts weekly (or more often, even) in an attempt to gain more understanding. This is not just a recitation-by-rote; this is an argument with other people, to try and squeeze every morsel of meaning and innuendo out of the writings. I'm not sure how much faith is involved, but reasoning's in there, somewhere...

x x Fenny (still preaching Zero Intolerance, for heaven's sake! [pun, sorry])

Thanks for your welcome, Ste. Aargh! I wrote a response to the line that "religious faith is above reason and logic", posted it, and came off line. Came back online to find that h2g2 hadn't accepted the little package of bytes I sent it! Grrr! Rest assured I've been back, but I have to go, now.

x x Fenny (ZI)

Reasoning doesn't have to be in the scientific mode, so I would agree with you. You cannot explain everything meaningfully through science and reductionism. For example: Love. You can say that it is an increase in seratonin blah de blah... but it *means* nothing. The 'sciences' of psycholoyg, psychiatry etc are criticised for the same reasons.

People can reason over religious texts til theyre blue in the face. Doesn't mean it isn't logical or meaningless because it isn't scientific...

Actually, h2g2 school of science and deductionism [sic] has been very helpful in allowing me to gain a grasp of some of the more bizarre of my beliefs. I thought (for example) that I just imagined colour-number association , but logical and informed discussion proved me to have synasthaesia - or sense-combination. Fascinating!

I wonder what we'll gain if we pore over the religious message in Posting 1???

x x Fenny (seeking and sometimes finding Zero Intolerance)

I think the person started out trying to be really self-controlled and not get too mad, but fails miserably. The "spitting" comment is gross. It scares me the way he sounds so militant, especially near the end. Is he just p**sed off or is he a raving fundamentalist?

I don't think you could squeeze that much religious meaning out of it. It's just your standard zealous crap methinks....

Ask Mrs. Blood

Ask her what, exactly? I believe she's religious, but I didn't think she was zealous! Good on her, anyway, for gaining the right to have her husband's children!

x x Fenny (UT)

Who is Mrs. Blood



Ste

She's a Briton whose husband died a few years ago, before the couple had had children. Because the husband had suffered a debilitating illness, I understand the hospital had conserved a sample of his sperm [ can I say that? I mean a man's seed, if the word was moderated!] She had to fight the courts in England and Europe for years before she got the right to be inseminated.

She did win that right, after three years' battle, and had her first child three years ago. The current news item is about her second pregnancy. But I still don't know what the message above is about!

x x Fenny (UT for didactic researchers)

Sorry the Mrs. Blood comment got into the wrong conversation...or part of it. Somebody said something about God choosing his children...whatever.... Never mind....I agree beware of people who write in all upper case...it is the way of DANGEROUS MADNESS.

Who is this god-person anyway?

I may be a year and a half late but here I am.
I am Islamic which means I follow the Quran for those who do not know.
In the Quran it says that Allah is closer to us than our own jugaler vain. So now your going to say about rape and beating and stuff.
Well Allah may be close to us but thats because Allah is every where. The reason why Allad does not intervene is that this life is a test and he has given us free will to do what we like. But he has sent down prophets to guide us on how to act in away that please's Allah. You will find that it generally means being patient, non voilent and understanding and to have trust in Allah.
The fact is if he stopped people from doing things we would not have a free will and there would be no point in living. Our purpose is to show Allah that we only follow Allah andonly seek to please him so he will let us go to Heaven inshallah.
People who commit bad deads will get there punishment when they die. Eternity in hell where the fires burn a thousand times hotter than on earth. There victims will if Allah decides they are worthy will be in heaven. In Islam what is supposed to stop us doing wrong is our fear of not pleaseing Allah. I do my utmost to be very civilised and respect other's wishes. There is no compultsion in religion is what it says in the Quran which means Muslims doe not press there religions on to others.
So come on reply I'm waiting to hear your abuse as that seems to be all you can say.
Adib

Well that whole virgin thing is probably not true anyway. Joeseph and Mary probably were just rolling around in the hay before marriage, was scorned upon, so they said she was a virgin. Also, I'm not what you call faithful but I believe in God and science. I mean, someone had to put the laws of physics and matter there in the first place didn't they?

opps! thought there was only one page to this forum so what i said only applies to then. sorry