A Conversation for The Legend of the First Man - Adam

What about Lilith?

Post 1

pie'o pah

Is there an accounting for the Legend of Lilith in all of this? I'm just trying to find out more info. I know a little about it, but am interested in learning more. I have an interest in lost or not very well known legends of creatoin. By the way does, anyone know where the Land of Nod might be that Cain could go live with the people there (especially since he was part of the only famliy mentioned as being created)?


What about Lilith?

Post 2

Oscar

The land of Nod? isn't that when you fall asleep?

All I know is that Cain was the grand-daddy of lots of friendly vampires smiley - smiley


What about Lilith?

Post 3

The Cow

All I know that in Command and Conquer it is the GDI versus the Brotherhood of Nod... lead by Cain!


What about Lilith?

Post 4

shenerd

Lilith was Adam's first wife and often credited as Queen of the Demons.

Supposedly, The Alphabet of Ben Sira describes how God created a woman out of the earth as a companion for Adam. The woman was Lilith, but she demanded equality with Adam, and as a result they quarrelled. Lilith refused to accept her subservience to Adam and flew off.

Another story I found tells of how Lilith took offence at the recumbent position he demanded. "Why must I lie beneath you?" she asked. "I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal." Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, she uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.

So I guess we could say that Lilith was the first feminist! I love the fact that she was so strong, and that she escaped the curse of death because they had parted long before the Fall.


What about Lilith?

Post 5

Oscar

you're often credited as Queen of the Demons as well, aren't you? 3smiley - smiley

(in a nice way)


What about Lilith?

Post 6

Oscar

I don't know why (since I'm meant to understand how these things work) but I expected that smiley to come out as a smiley with horns on!


What about Lilith?

Post 7

shenerd

Why thank you for the compliment Oscar. They mean a lot, especially at my age smiley - winkeye


What about Lilith?

Post 8

The Cow

Oh, I see, you meant 3:^) kind of thing.


What about Lilith?

Post 9

Gavroche

Put more simply, Lilith (or occasionally Lilit) is an explanation of the two creation stories in Genesis. 1) on the __ day God created man and woman and saw that it was good. 2) God created Adam, and then once he discovered Adam was lonely, took a rib from Adam, and created Eve. Making him miserable instead of lonely. smiley - smiley

Some person looking at these two creation stories asked, "What happened to the woman that God created simultaneously with Adam, and what was her name?"

I have no idea how they came up with a name. But this supposedly how the Legend of Lilith came about.


What about Lilith?

Post 10

Ioreth (on hiatus)

A copy of the of the book of Ben Sira was fond on Masada, if you want to know.

...

The legend of Lilith came about as a result of the two separate accounts of creation. The first states :God created man - man and woman, masculine and feminine he created them The second goes through the whole bother with Eve from the rib. So what Ben Sira- and loads of feminists since then- take from this is that at first two equals, Adam and Lilith, were there together. But according to the legend they quarrelled, so Lilith (which means night) was taken away by God, who went on to make a subservient Eve (or Chava, which means life).


What about Lilith?

Post 11

Dazinho

I think you're all at least partly right. According to the Sumerians, who were writing about her for a long time before the Hebrews and everyone that came after started ripping off her story, Lillith was , amongst many other things:

i) At one point she was married toEnki-Smauel, brother of Enlil-Jehovah. Their marriage was arranged by Taninvar the blind dragon.

ii) She was Jehovah's partner for a spell, although Jehovah is said to have felt much degraded by this liaison.

iii) She was a goddess who tamed wild beasts.

iv) She was Princess of The Netherworld.

v) She was daughter of King Nergal and Queen Erish-kigal of the Netherworld.

vi) She was heiress to the malkhut.

vii) She was handmaiden to her aunt, Queen Inanna.

viii) She was desugnated with the task of gathering men from the streets of Uruk to convey them to the ziggurat temple.

Obviously not all religions could handle this type of woman. The Hebrews portrayed her as everything from a babysnatcher to a vampire. The Christian Church, for a spell, had her as number two on their most hated list only behind Mary Magdelene, which is curious when you consider the link between the two.

For more detailed information, I direct you to Laurence Gardner's book Genesis of the Grail Kings, Bantam Press. Or visit us at The Freedom From Faith Foundation - follow the link from my page. I have the honour of being the librarian for the newly founded Hall Of Records, and I think a review of this book exists there, so you can guage its contents before splashing out on it.


What about Lilith?

Post 12

Ioreth (on hiatus)

When you say heiress to the malkhut (which I assume means kingship, from the hebrew) which malkhut are you referring to?

And when you say "The Hebrews portrayed her as everything from a babysnatcher to a vampire." where are you getting this?

(I'm not being accusative, I had just never heard this before)


What about Lilith?

Post 13

Gavroche

I don't think Lilith is mentioned directly in either Tanakh or Talmud (a lot less sure on the latter since I am Reform).

Tanakh is equivalent to the Christian Old Testament. Talmud is commentary on the Tanakh.

She does appear in Jewish folklore however. A good series of books on Jewish folklore to read are by Howard Schwartz.
check out "Lilith's Cave: Jewish Tales of the Supernatural"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195067266/gavrocsabccafe

Yes, I will get a very tiny commission if you purchase the book following the above link exactly. Thanks!


What about Lilith?

Post 14

Ioreth (on hiatus)

Touche - folklore is not what they teach us at my Jew school - thanks.


What about Lilith?

Post 15

pie'o pah

Well, gee, I ask one question,and I get such a huge response. I just mentioned it because I wanted to add my two pence, but was too lazy to do so.The legend itself fascinates me, as its on of my favorite stories. Its funny, it was meant to be a cautionary tale, for women not to rebel against there husbands. Instead it becomes a source of inspiration to do that very thing. Kinda cool, huh.
Seriously though, the Bible says "Cain went to dwell in the land of Nod, East of Eden." Which begs the question where is Nod, and who are the people who dwell there? But I am aware of the whole vampire myth as well. I kind of like the Neil Gaiman possibility. That the land of Nod is the Dreaming and Cain and Abel are acting out the role of Victim and Victimizer in our subconcious.


What about Lilith?

Post 16

Ioreth (on hiatus)

Hey, if you read the book Ishmael - his (the giant gorilla who teaches philsophy) theory is that they represent the hunter/gatherer being killed off by the domesticaters - the shepherds.

Just so you know.


What about Lilith?

Post 17

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

Garth, an excellent, transsexual, New Zealand composer of symphonies, uses the stage name Lilith when performing his/her bizarre striptease act.


What about Lilith?

Post 18

Researcher 55674

I'm sorry, this is rather off-topic, but what's wrong with Mary Magdelene? According to the Church I mean.


What about Lilith?

Post 19

Dazinho

In the early thirteenth century, the town of Beziers in Southern France had become something of a hotbed for heretics, particularly Cathars. It is not known whether the Duke of Beziers was a Cathar or merely a sympathiser. Whatever, when the papal inquistion learnet of this, they issued am edict that either the people of Beziers hand over the Cathars they were sheltering, or leave the town so that the pope's men might deal with them easier, on the pain of excommunication (no mean threat in 1209).

The townspeople did neither. So, on July 22 1209, the pope's men walked into the town and called every single one of the towns estimated 20000 inhabitants.

They did this, not just because they refused to hand over the Cathars, but supposedly because they shared the same heretical beliefs - namely, that Mary Magdalene was the wife of Jesus, that she bore his children, and that she had left the holy land and had taken Jesus' family to live there.

The south of France has always been a hotbed for this sort of talk. Many churches along the south coast contain statues of the Black Madonna. Mary was believed to have lived in the area around Marseille. July 22nd is the feast day of the Magdelene.

But it's not just the fact that she was married to Jesus. A number of researchers have gone further, and suggested that Mary was actually the senior person in their marriage, and that she might have been a high priestess of some sort. Many writers have used the legends that surround Mary to suggest the reason for the church's mistreatment of women for the last 2000 years. A number of the words originally used to describe Mary in the Bible seem to have been mistranslated somehow, so that the image of Mary held now is that she was some sort of prostitute or whore. There's a lot to the subject of The Magdelene, which deserves and will get an entry, when I get round to it.

The best book I have found that covers this subject is The Templar Revelation, by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince. Laurence Gardner, Hugh Schonnfield and Barbara Thiering have also produced excellent works on the subject, and (shameless self-promotion warning) the library at the Freedom From Faith Foundation holds details of these books.


What about Lilith?

Post 20

Researcher 55674

Interesting, that's rather novel logic, to hate someone because people kept coming up with off the wall legends about them. I suppose if I held to that I'd have to hate Jesus as well. Thanks, I've heard some of the legends before, but never their origin.


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