h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Contrary to your article, Garth Brooks has very little to do with the songwriting process. A survey of any of his cd sleeves will reveal that his name only appears with writer credit on half of the songs, and those where his name appears also have three other names accompanying it. The sad truth is that country music is just as factory-produced as teeny-bopper pop music, which is why it all sounds the same.

Yes, but imagine how country music would sound if Garth and the rest were supposed to actually write the songs on their own!

Admittedly, Garth is not the driving force behind the songs he sings, but he does have enough involvement to help keep it in his style. His stage personality and showmanship only serve to finish a job well started.

As far as country music being commercial and formulated.....when has that not been true? Music is a BUSINESS....you write what sells, or play to yourself!

As far as singer/songwriters.....they are far and few between. The modern greats in country are Willie and Kris. Niether of them can carry a tune in a lead lined bucket....and will tell you so!

The last good one with a voice is Jackson Brown.(Garth's hero, incedentally.) And let us not forget Jim Croce....if he had lived, what could he have done!?

NM

As far as country stars go, I despise the bad ones, am indifferent to the good ones, and hope they all get drowned together.

But you can find non-formulaic music out there. Songs written by the people who actually perform them. Most alternative bands do this. Punk and ska bands, as well. Sure, some of it does sound alike, and there is some copying of styles. But it sure beats the hell out of having a cadre of songwriters pumping out songs to every single country or pop (is there any difference between them anymore?) star. The biggest problem with the music factories is that every songwriter is trying to create a number 1 single. So they write what is going to be popular, rather than what is good. In the other genres I just mentioned, many of their songs are singularly unsuitable for a mass listening market. They produce the songs anyway, because they like them.

The main problem with artists who attempt to "break the mold" is the fact that what they produce is barely recognizable as noise. In their attempts to be "artistic", they miss the point of the music, which is to be entertaining, as well as thought provoking.

It's all well and good to be experimental, it's not so good to toss the rules of music theory in the trash. They are there to guide the musician to the sounds the audience will be pleased with. If the audience isn't pleased with the sound, the "message" will never be heard.

NM

Yes, but there is a huge difference between writing popular music and writing good music. In order to write popular music, it has to be conformist and non-threatening, and thus, non-thought provoking. When you have the freedom to write what you like, then it can become thought provoking, which is why noisome bands like Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine garner such a following. Tell the average Rage fan that they're listening to rap, and they get misty eyed as they say "Yeah, but it's political."

But you can carve out a unique style without violating the precepts of good music. Nine Inch Nails produces excellent harmonies between keyboards, guitars, and synthesized industrial machines. Most punk songs have gorgeous melodies, although it isn't easily apparent when the singer isn't very good, or when the feedback on the guitars goes full bore. That's part of the charm; simple yet elegant songs artfully concealed by noise, like a Disney soundtrack played too fast. That, and there is no subject the bands are afraid to approach. When was the last time a country song really made you pause and think?

If the singer isn't very good, the feedback is on full bore and the message is.....how did you say....artfully(?) covered by noise....can you call it music?

Talent is taking an accepted genre, and putting your message in it. Not putting your message in a "shock" genre, which will draw attention merely for it's difference!

Trust me, there is much good music which pushes the boundrys. Some which break them. But the progression is slow. Evolving from one style to the next. Anything else is "bubblegum rock". Here to impress "this generation"....never to be seen or heard from again.

As far as a song making you think......what do you want it to make you think about? Love....lack thereof? Environment...world peace..world war? Terrorism...mountain lakes? What message do you want? What makes YOU think? What are YOU interested in?

Do you see my point? We all listen to music for different reasons. The young folks are usually looking for a cause to support, us middle-aged are normally looking for entertainment, and old folks listen for the memories. The musicians know this and aim their music at their chosen audience. They are business men.

True "artists" never get on a stage. Once on stage, your followers guide your music...otherwise, you starve or find a "real job".

NM

Music "evolves" when a new genre of music gains support in the underground scene...then, after focus groups, lab experiments on mice, etc, it gets pumped out with the full fanfare of the media machine as the new "cool thing", after it has already been watered down by marketing executives.

If you want the real deal, you have to get with the underground scenes while they're still fresh and unpolluted. True, you'll hear a lot of talentless hacks, but on the way you'll discover fantastic music that may never be heard by the general population, which only makes it more special.

And not all the music I referred to is "shock" music...notice I didn't even refer to that fruitcake Marilyn Manson (he's a wuss and he owes me twenty bucks!) the king/queen of shock. His/her songs have no merit, musically or otherwise.

But if it's a choice between what sounds good, and what has a good message, I'll take the message. If I hear one more inane song about lost love, I'm going to go on a rampage.

I can understand the "rampage" thought entirely!!!

It is my belief that in music, the sound comes first, and then the message. If you can combine the two, you are a great songwriter. If not......you're only creating a noise without purpose.....or a purpose surrounded by noise.

It takes both the music and the lyrics to make it work!

NM

I totally agree. I just happen to think that you can't find the combination in popular music, is all. I do have quite a bit of music that doesn't sound good, but has excellent lyrics, but most of the tunes I buy also have a great sound. To my ears, anyway...to each their own.

And don't be misled by my use of Nine Inch Nails as an example...they're only useful to me as an example...they're really not what I'm into.

I may be a shallow person, but I will take good sound over good lyrics anyday! If you want to concentrate on deep thought, stick to poetry!

NM

Very interesting thread.

What I want to listen to varies from moment to moment. Sometimes I just want to hear a really good groove. Doesn't even have to change key, just groove. I know I am not alone, and that may be why electronica is so popular right now. Reminds me a lot of old old fiddle tunes. Very simple with a good groove. Sometimes I want lyrics (rarely is this very important). And, sometimes a good melody. And, sometimes I jones for a wonderful hawaiian falsetto (an acquired taste).

The point is, I very much think that some of the popular music that "the media machine" is putting out, is quite good actually, regardless of what you personally like. The fact that someone put their money behind a singer or act to promote them and make money doesn't mean that the song they are singing is bad. Doesn't mean that the performer is bad. Just means that they understand and can work the business side of the business.

Take Madonna as an example. Overhyped, completely sold out to the media. However, she is amazingly talented. I have loved every album, and I am always amazed at the depth of the songs and how she is able to use her voice. I hate myself for liking her but I can't help myself. Her stuff is just plain good. Thats why its popular, that is why people like it.

I grew up in Los Angeles and was basically a punker. And, I caught a lot of crap from my friends for liking Duran Duran. I was constantly asked "how could I like a "popular" group." The answer is that they are good and I like the music. And, just how popular can they really be when everyone I know doesn't like them. I don't like them because they are popular, I like them because they are good. Trust me, it took a lot of guts to like them because I was ostracized and teased. Not an easy thing for a teenager to handle.

My brother has never quite understood my taste in popular music. He prides himself on being into the obscure and "wierd." He would never listen to Ricky Martin. Now, don't get me wrong. I like everything my brother has turned me onto, but thats because I like good music.

The genre doesn't matter. All genres have good music and bad music in them. I like the good music regardless of the genre. Some folk, like my brother hate the genre "popular" and won't listen to anything produced in that genre. That is a personal choice. I think it takes the same amount of talent to produce a good song in any genre and that it is inappropriate to write off an entire genre just because there is money involved, or just to be "different" like my brother does.

Welcome to the discussion, here's your program and your glass of .

I am guilty of writing off two particular genres, even though there is some music from them that has merit. I dislike pop because there is a factory feel to it. That's not to say that there aren't pop tunes that appeal to me, but I have to admit I haven't heard any recently. But (am I going to regret admitting this) the Spice Girls song "Two Become One" is a beautiful song. And I rag on them constantly, because they are the worst products of music-by-marketers, as opposed to musicians. But one of their songwriters came up with a lovely tune, and they recorded it well.

Country music, on the other hand, is something I loathe. Maybe it's because I was forced to listen to it as a small child. Maybe it's because it now desperately wants to sound like the 80's hair bands (another thing I'm less ashamed to admit I like) and still call itself country. Maybe it's because it's always been about farm boys from Alabama, which I am not, although I see that they're now trying to make their messages relevant to city people (I heard a Clint Black song titled something like "City Boys Can Have the Country Blues" during a recent halftime show.). But the shifting emphasis just makes me hate it more, for being fake.

What I'm trying to say is that there CAN be good music in any genre, but to get more consistently good music, you have to find those underground type of things. But, as a punker from LA, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that.

As for Hawaiian falsettoes, I must say, it has to be an acquired taste. But I lived in Hawaii for over four years without acquiring that taste.

(Watch the reference to Alabama boys!)

The point is this......good music is good music. Genre makes no difference. If it feels good to the "spirit".....you'll not be ashamed to listen.

Myself, I have favorites from Gangsta Rap to Mozart. The money used to produce it is not important...the music is.

As far as being embarrassed to admit liking a particular artist.....it's my opinion that Michael Jackson has never produced a a bad song! And sorry...I'm a big Manallo fan.(Hell of a writer!)

Music is a BUSINESS! Talent has little to do with it! But talented people do better in it than the others....thank heavens!

NM

"But talented people do better in it than the others..."...the biggest selling artists right now are Backstreet Boys, Ricky Martin, and Brittney Spears...are you sure you want to stand by that statement?

In some of those other genres, the bands do NOT want excess success, because they don't want to lose their identity and the power over their creative product. Integrity matters to them, and they don't sell out. You may never hear of Dance Hall Crashers, but I bet if you heard them, you'd dig 'em. They have more talent that the entire corporation, but they'll never be millionaires, and they'll never be on MTV. And yet, they manage to pack concert venues well in advance, just like Metallica did for years before finally deciding to go commercial. So there is still money in integrity, just not as much.

BTW...I wasn't trying to impugn the hard working farmers of the great state of Alabama, just merely pointing out that I am not one of them, and therefore the music has no relevance to me. No hard feelings? Can we still be friends? Whew...

I actually adopted a dog to the great Barry M. Very exciting. (I used to work at the humane society in Los Angeles. It was a great dog. Female. Had had a very hard life. Sweet. We used her for education visits with kids. But... sigh... no one was adopting her. When, after about 3 - 4 months, in walks Barry. And he sees no other dog than her, and adopts her. She was soooo happy. She just strutted out of that shelter leaning into Barry the whole way. And, yes, his family is nice too.)

OK For country, specifically Clint Black. That boy has an amazing amount of integrity. I saw him headline a show that included Dwight Yoakam (playing acoustic with Ry Cooder on slide), Emmyloo Harris with Sam Bush on Mandolin, The Sons of the Pioneers and many other "greats." The show was being taped and the producer was a complete a**. He kept telling the musicians to not play for the live crowd becuase they were having problems with the sound for the recording. It was very annoying for the fans. Well. He tried to pull that with Clint. And.. It didn't work. Clint tried to tell jokes for a bit, gave up because that's not what he does and started to play for us (just him and his guitar). The producer had a fit and turned off Clint's mike. Clint simply moved to another mike. The producer came up and physically took the mike away and thats about when Clint turned his back to us and had a rather loud and angry word or 2 with the manager. The show didn't have any delays from then on out. And, we gave Clint a standing O because he most definitely deserved it. Both for caring about the fans sitting in the audience and for the absolutely wonderful voice he has and the sincerety with which he sings. He made a fan out of me that day. (I had gone to see Dwight - its a LA punk thing).

OK sorry for the side bars, but you all just get me reminicing.

Now -there's- a flood of memories! Jim Croche... Absolutely!

If I could save time in a bottle
The first thing that I'd like to do
Is to save every day
Til eternity passes away
Just to spend them with you

Bad Bad Leroy Brown......Ya' Don't Mess Around With Jim....One Less Set Of Footsteps........Did he do ANYTHING bad?.....Shame his talent was cut so sort!

My appologies for being out of touch the last few...e-mail has kept me entirely TOO busy!

Glad to see you in here'nonnie! You are the consumate "Oldies" affectionado!


NM

If he did anything bad, -I- sure don't remember hearing it.

'Nonnie