h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The success of the LCC scheme had lead to it being exported to other cities, inclusing Edinburgh, which will have a charging zone in around 2006.

My sist'er boyfriend is very unhappy with this. The idea is that all drivers entering the city at 9am and leaving at 5pm are charged, but he makes the reverse journey, leaving the city at 9am and returning at 5pm. For him, the road is clear, no congestion, and yet under the proposed system, he will also be charged.

He feels this in unfair.

From reading the entry, I supposed that the cameras were angled to only catch entry into the zone, but it turns out that that was not written. Is this not the case? If it is, he only needs meet you at the pub outside the city for a drink everyday after work (since he'd be paying that money anyway...).

In London the cameras are placed at various locations in the zone not just entry points - in fact many entry points have no cameras.

as for Edinburgh, like London your getting what was voted for ... who said local elections were not importent?

Happy Dude's right. Since the charge is for anyone driving "within" the zone, not just those crossing the limits, the cameras are all over. Otherwise it'd create the potential for people who start within the zone to drive freely within the zone without crossing the limit and so not be charged for the entire day - or people to cross into the zone outside charging hours, and do the same.

It's a pain, and I understand your sister's boyfriend's annoyance, but I imagine the practicalities of catering for people who do the exact opposite to the vast majority, compared to the impact, would end up being financially prohibitive... do you have any suggestions as to how to do it??? I must admit I'm flummoxed.

Mel

nb: if your BF lives in the zone and if they operate like London he should get a hefty discount.

Yes, he will get a discount, but the point he was making is that on his journeys, he's not causing congestion as that side of the road will be (and always is) virtually empty.

How hard would it be for the cameras only to look in one direction at each of the two rush hours per day? They look at people entering the city in the morning and look at people exiting the city in the evening. They would ignore the other flow of traffic at those times. But that is not what the leaflet we all got round our houses said. It siad everyone entering or leaving the "zone" at peak times will be charged.

There is a bit of a movement in Edinburgh from people in exactly the same situation as my sister's boyfriend; they feel it is an unfair tax on them.

His main arguement was "Because I am not contributing to congestion at all, why should I pay congestion charges?"

He's perfectly happy to pay if he makes a journey that contributes to congestion, but he never does.

I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make.

he could always move?

failing that there is always the ballot box

In post 4, Dinnerlady sez: "Otherwise it'd create the potential for people who start within the zone to drive freely within the zone without crossing the limit and so not be charged for the entire day - or people to cross into the zone outside charging hours, and do the same."

I fail to see what's wrong with doing either of those things, *if* the goal is to reduce traffic congestion. If you start and end in the zone, then you are not adding anything to the total number of cars, and if you enter the zones past limited hours, then there are less people wanting to be actually in the zone a that time, so what congestion is it that you could you be contributing to? Additionally, by hanging around the zone longer, you increase your chances of doing business at a place inside the zone (or just working harder for your boss), which is economically beneficial.

Perhaps the zone is in a wealthier part of London than elsewhere, so it's intended to be an income redistribution.

the zone is central London where up to the introduction of the zone congestion was BAD, with average speeds well below 10mph throughout the day.

AhA! I live in LA where there's lots of congestion that noone does anything about, so I didn't understand the severity. Hollywood Boulevard where the tourists are, and Los Feliz Ave between the freeways, can get like that.

OK, to try & paint a picture for those not familiar with London...

The zone is every thing inside the Inner Ring Road (Pentonville Road, City Road, Old Street, Commercial Street, Mansell Street, Tower Bridge Road, New Kent Road, Elephant and Castle, Vauxhall Bridge Road, Park Lane, Edgware Road, Marylebone Road and Euston Road.) This is one of three ringway roads around London (the others being the North/South Circular (about halfway between the centre of London & the edge of the county) & the M25 (around the outer edge of the county)).

The bit inside the Inner Ring Road primely contains Londons Premier Shopping/Business/Entertainment districts. Unfortunately it also contains quite a few of the river (Thames) crossing points.

(see map at http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/congestion/maps/maps.shtml )

As for your comments about “Freeways”, very shortly Birmingham will get the UK's first Toll Motorway ... see http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/travel/m6-toll-rd.shtml

There are some freeways in California that are toll roads. This is because we use the term to mean any road that has ramps instead of intersections/signals.

Speaking of odd uses of language, the CCS map seems to show continuous streets with several different names. Is this a matter of scale or strategic mapping, or do roads in London suddenly change name for no geographic reason? Los Angeles goes entirely the opposite direction, in which a street which is discontinuous with another, but shares the same latitude (even if you can't get from one to the other!), gets the exact same name. I imagine both your and our emergency vehicle drivers get their brains stretched a bit.

The name change thing is quite common, if you remember that the conurbation of London formed from the gradual merging of “villages” & “hamlets” surrounding the “City”, (even today the administrative district that is the “City of London” only covers about one square mile (approx)) you can see where this came from I hope

As for motorways we have quite specific definition which is a bit more than just a road with on/off ramps, many trunk roads have such ramps but are not motorways.

It gets worse. In the UK there are indeed roads that change name at no particular intersection for no reason.

In the UK, town planners seem to hate the idea of more than three digits in a house number. In the US, people are quite happy to say "Yes, I live at 12457 Century Blvd." (I'm guessing at that number BTW).

But in the UK, rarely more than three. There is in fact a street, in a town in Lancashire somewhere, which is very very very long, so long that the numbering system re-starts three times. People say:

"Yes, I'm a 121 Something street, that's the second 121, not the first."

Seriously, I've talked to people that live there.

I understand that "Green Lanes" in North London is like that

The numbers in LA are in (how many blocks from city center) x 100, so yes, adresses up to the 30000s are possible, even on 1 block long streets.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3298789.stm
Lawd above! da UK's frog & toad network reaches a watershed on Tuesday wiv da openin' ov da coun'ry's first toll motorway., innit.