h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The term "The British Isles" is no longer accepted by inhabitants of the Republic of Ireland.

Hi Gnomon, we wanted to evoke the geography of 'islands', something old and poetic, not political. The term here is used in a distinctly non-political way being a description of 'all the islands'. However, we do not want to cause offence and we'll change it. Can you suggest something that is acceptable and yet in keeping with the evocation of 'islands'? Would 'The British Isles and Ireland' be acceptable? A little research on the internet shows indeed that the issue is far from clear-cut. It also bears out that the term 'British Isles' is offensive to some. Wikipedia is actually very good on this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

What do you reckon?

How about "Britain and Ireland" ?

I heard recently that a printing company in Dublin responsible for producing Irish schoolbooks had to reprint vast quantities of books because they contained the term "British Isles".

OK, thanks for that Gnomon. We're using 'Britain and Ireland'.

IONA - Islands of the North Atlantic?

Strictly speaking it's the British Island Plus The Top Right-Hand Corner Of The Island Next Door... the BIPTTRHCOTIND is a bit of a mouthful, though, so I guess we can concede this one...

Just so long as we don't end up referring to the English Channel as "La Manche" to spare the French any hurt feelings... that would perhaps be a renaming too far! (And ye gods, isn't the North Sea "das Deutches Meer" to our OTHER European neighbours? It'll be a cold day in Hell before we start calling it the German Sea, thank you very much...)

Yes, I think they mentioned that in the Wiki article, but when I see the acronym IONA I can't help but think of the wee island by Mull, up in the Western Islands of Scotland.

Yes, I think of the little island off Mull when I see Iona as well.

There's nothing like 'the German sea' or 'das deutsche Meer', I wonder where you got the idea from . The North Sea is 'Die Nordsee' (which is a literal translation form North Sea).

Ah, I'm sure I've seen old books (pre-war?) that refer to "the German Sea" to the east of the Dogger Bank - I'm assuming that was a direct lift from the German usage. I will be corrected, although it occured to me our Government is in such a craven rush to apologise to everyone for everything the British allegedly did in times past, that if we're not careful we'll end up calling the Channel "La Manche" to keep the French happy...

I've never heard that term before, but cecked now in some old dictionaries (from 1946). The term 'German ocean' for Nordsee is given as an alternative for North Sea, but not the German equivalent, they only give 'Nordsee' as translation.

Incidentally (and it's a bit of tangent this, so apologies) but the large northernmost county of Scotland is the county of Sutherland. The word 'Sutherland' actually derives from the Norweigan for 'South land' ie, South Norway, as opposed to North of Scotland.

Gnomon,

I think the Irish have let their political oversensitivity get the better of their geography, if that's how they feel.

These are the British Isles, the Isles of the Bretons: the largest of them is Great Britain [the "Great" isn't a boast, it simply means largest], which is commonly, but really incorrectly, shortened to "Britain". Calling them "British Isles" is not to imply that they are *owned* *by* (Great) Britain, any more than the whole of North America is owned by (the United States of) America. Canadians aren't trying to rename their continent.

In any case, the fact that these islands are named after the Bretons - a Celtic people - rather than, say, the Norman invaders, should surely be a source of pride rather than chagrin for their fellow Celts in the Republic.

And of course I write as someone mostly English but partly Irish, and with an Irish wife.

Not so.

Firstly, get your spelling right. It was the Britons, not the Bretons, who occupied Great Britain. But they never occupied Ireland. Ireland was inhabited by a different Celtic people, the Gaels.

Nowadays, British means "belonging to Great Britain", so calling Ireland British is genuinely offensive to many Irish people. I've no objection to the term "British Isles" myself, since it is just a geographical term, but most Irish people resent it. And it is easy enough to use an alternative term.

And, of course, the oldest (native) name for THIS island is "Albion", or Alban. Isn't that still the Scottish Gaelic name for the place? Reverting to this name might have advantages: it takes "Britain" out of the equation and substitutes an older and equally acceptable name. Alas, the Welsh word is "Prydein", which in Welsh grammar is just a mutation or two away from "Britain" - ie, clearly related. But come to think of it, a grammatically acceptable construction in Welsh, which side-steps the "British" business that our westerly neighbours are unsderstandably ambivalent about, might be "Yr Ynys Albanaidd" - the Island of Alban.

Of course, the ancient Greeks referred to a faraway Northern land, beyond the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltrar), handy for tin and silver and animal furs, which they referred to as the island(s) of Hyperborea - so far away, so cold, so wet, so inacessible and so hard to get to that it might as well be beyond the North Wind... So maybe we can become Hyperboreans again?

An interesting derivation of the name "Britain" is that, historically, it relates to the Celtic tribe living in what is now Northern England, the Brigantes, whose tribal goddess Brigantia came to the Romans in a slightly garbled and mis-heard way as "Brittannia", and by default gave the name to her people. (After all, the Brits in Empire were seemingly just as cloth-eared in transcribing the names used by subject peoples).

So "Islands of the Goddess Britannia"? maybr...

Ah, that old chestnut. Diarmaid MacCulloch in his book on the Reformation calls them 'The Atlantic Isles' but will it catch on?

Did the Celts really conquer Ireland? Why was the pre-Christian Irish law system called 'Brehon law'? Does it matter?

'British Isles' fine by me. Those who protest otherwise are just noise-makers.

The Celts didn't conquer Ireland, as far as we can make out. The people of Ireland (Milesians?) appear to have adopted the Celtic language and some of the customs. There's no evidence of an invasion.

I personally have no problem with "the British Isles", but I would object to Ireland being called British.