h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

hi rg

Buggrit lost post again. Will I ever learn?

bs

Hi Bx4

No worries. Sorry you had 'negative work'. It is always frustrating to know afterwards that supping a pint would have been the more productive option!

I still get it wrong especially with E-mail.

It's national biscuit day here apparently. My sort of day washed down with coffee. Weekend of messing about in shed as roads too busy to be fun. Engine on for ten seconds just to check for 'life'.

bs

hi rg

'I can see that serving as second fiddle didn't in itself trigger automatic burn up at the end of every term in office'

Merkel's viewpoint is much quoted but with repect to the FDP mistaken. Not so surprising really since although born in the BRD (in Hamburg) she grew up in the DDR (don't know the backstory) and didn't join the CDU until 1990 so probably unaware of the FDP's long an successful career as a minority coalition party. Nevertheless she predicted the fate of LDs in 2015.

'Much like 2015 then? Hence Clegg's 'heart to the Tories and brains to Labour' or words to that effect?'

Indeed Clegg has always show considerable flexibility as far as his 'principles' were concerned.

'Clearly the Liberal Democrats should have chosen their coalition partner more carefully (or stood aside)!'

Indeed Clegg's conviction that he would be kingmaker whoever won was deluded

'Put it this way; it was possible in 2010. In 2015 the polls pointed to the possibility and parties played on this; whilst in the end the polls as presented proved to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard.' Though they proved more accurate in Scotland where, ironically, none of the parties believe them.

bs

Hi Bx4

There was a pact between the Liberal party of old and Labour. That didn

Having another go as previous post truncated for some reason...

Hi Bx4

There was a pact between the Liberal party of old and Labour. That didn't end well for the Liberals as their performance in 1979 bears testament. In a UK context coalitions and pacts don't go well for minnow parties if the Post War period is a guide.

Yet there was chat a plenty at possible deals in the run up to the 2015 poll. In my view this was driven by opinion polls which as ever were a menace. I realise we will never learn and opinion poll fever will be back with a vengeance. What an asset to democracy they are.

"...Clegg has always show considerable flexibility as far as his 'principles' were concerned..."

Then again he only got the job because his party decide the leader they'd previously elected was too old. They didn't even give him the chance to fight an election.

"Clegg's conviction that he would be kingmaker whoever won was deluded"

Undone by an ungrateful electorate.

"...[opinion polls] proved more accurate in Scotland where, ironically, none of the parties believe them..."

There was an element of playing down the figures to keep the vote galvanised?

bs

hi rg

'There was a pact between the Liberal party of old and Labour. That didn't end well for the Liberals as their performance in 1979 bears testament. In a UK context coalitions and pacts don't go well for minnow parties if the Post War period is a guide.'

I remember the Lib-Lab Pact. AMS systems may be better at producing stable coalitions than FPTP ones. I think the fate of the LibDems in the latest coalition may have informed the SNP decision to not get involved in one.

'Yet there was chat a plenty at possible deals in the run up to the 2015 poll. In my view this was driven by opinion polls which as ever were a menace. I realise we will never learn and opinion poll fever will be back with a vengeance. What an asset to democracy they are.'

I believe some countries ban them from the official start of the election until its held. Might be the way to go though no doubt there would be much whining from the meeja.

'Then again he only got the job because his party decide the leader they'd previously elected was too old. They didn't even give him the chance to fight an election.'

'Ming' Campbell:

"It has become clear that following the prime minister's decision not to hold an election, questions about leadership are getting in the way of further progress by the party. Accordingly I now submit my resignation as leader with immediate effect."

'Undone by an ungrateful electorate'

Do I detect a whiff of irony?

'There was an element of playing down the figures to keep the vote galvanised?' I'm not sure they seemed quite taken aback by the scale of their victory.

I think that Mustardland has finally spotted that I am sitting behind a proxy server because logging on has become quite problematic. Probably a good think as I was wasting way too much time there.

Having finally caught up with earlier episodes of '1864' I will settle don to watch it 'live'. SEems quite except I am having a slight difficulty with it featuring nearly the entire cast of Borgen.

bs

Hi Bx4

I confess that once Montalbano had finished control of the TV passed to SO at nine on a Saturday. Yes I should have recorded 1864 for I have read only good things of it. I am going to catch the last two episodes next Saturday and after that hope that the BBC follow their usual pattern of repeats (all be it there'll be a wait for my chance at Borgen spotting). Looking at Wikipedia I notice the series is quite fresh out of the box 'debuted on DR1 on 12 October 2014' http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_(TV_series)

Mustardland - I'm sorry you are having issues logging on. I am bound to agree that I too have spent too much time there. That said there is a tendency for forced breaks as the number of threads that interest waxes and wanes. So looking right now there is nothing for me on the first page.

On playing down the polls showing an SNP wipeout - I can see that this would have been a good idea regardless. As you pointed out the polls proved right in Scotland. The SNP won the argument that Scotland's interests were best served by a regional block. Of course it would have helped if the polls were also correct in England and Wales...That said that wafer thin majority will be soon whittled away.

Stopping polls in the period leading up to a (real) poll could be tried. I realise that private polling would still take place and leak out. I suppose what I'd want to see is more scrutiny of policy. And for that to happen the structure of the political interview would also have to change. Today politicians answer the questions they'd have liked to have been asked. It is a turn off?

"AMS systems may be better at producing stable coalitions than FPTP ones."

I'm sure that if the electoral system 'forced' parties to enter coalitions as a matter of course the electorate would learn to be more sympathetic. Right now propping up someone else's government looks like a sell out. No wonder the 'faithful' walk away.

'Ming' Campbell

Oh the irony they boot him out, Clegg has his moment in the sun, and the party is left shoe shining for attention. Still they are eight times as big as UKIP.

bs

hi rg

'1864'

Certainly worth a watch and as you say will almost certainly repeat as a schedule filler. The BBC monopoly may be under threat as other channels seem to be getting in on the 'nordic' bandwagon.

'issues'

May be my own fault. For years I have been lurking behind a proxy IP address which means I seem to be posting from wellingborough or thereabouts. Unfortunately, my friend from UoN who set me up on one of his university's servers is retiring and wants to remove anything dodgy about his activities. So I have gone to a commercial proxy server supplier but I think they may provide increased security by rotating through a number of 'false flag' IP addresses

'forced breaks'

Last time I was on was during the referendum so I'm not a frequently flier. I'll probably not bother trying to fix the problem as I have become, as I usually do, a bit bored by Mustarland Redux.

'a good idea'

You may be right most polls were suggesting around 40 seats but

'Stunning Ashcroft polls show the SNP could win every seat in Scotland'

Lord Ashcroft, the billionaire Tory peer turned pollster, has released his third batch of Scottish constituency polls.'


http://www.may2015.com/featured/election-2015-stunning-ashcroft-polls-show-the-snp-could-win-every-seat-in-scotland/

Curiously the new Statesman seems to have been on the button. Obviously it is not required reading amongst the Labour nomenklatura at either their branch or head offices..

'The SNP won the argument that Scotland's interests were best served by a regional block.'

Perhaps though I think the that the failure of Scottish Labour and the Scottish Liberal Democrats to represent Scottish interests at Westminster played a part.

'whittled away'

By death and/or damascene conversions.

'private polling'

Though I wonder how long it will take before people start believing in, public or private, poll results again.

'more scrutiny of policy'

I agree thou as you suggest it would require major changes to the way 'public' political debate, Some parties seemed wedded to soundbites, carefully orchestrated appearances surrounded by the party faithful, etc.

'they'd have liked to have been asked'

To some extent I think the rot started with the bland interviews of the Frost/Marr Show and the faux aggression of the Today programme.

'more sympathetic'

Perhaps, though I am not really persuaded that the rejection of Liberal Democrats was simply a function their being the junior partners in an FPTP coalition.

'they boot him out'

I think his credibility was dented by the number of faux pas he had made but the party probably felt the needed a younger leader.


'Clegg has his moment in the sun...'

Though putin may have extended it a little

'...and the party is left shoe shining for attention'

One of my more enjoyable moments on ML was reminding SL of his pre-elect'on prediction that 'The LDs will be OK.'.

'Still they are eight times as big as UKIP.'

For the moment.

bs

Hi Bx4

'issues'

"...'false flag' IP addresses..."

I struggle to get on the internet at all and wonder what a fancy server in the chain would do to connectivity?

"...Redux..."

Had to look this up! Mustardland went quiet only to perk up a bit and go quiet again. So it goes. I try not to follow too many threads.

"...the failure of Scottish Labour and the Scottish Liberal Democrats to represent Scottish interests at Westminster played a part..."

Can't argue with this. That said are many folk across the UK happy with their representation assuming their choice got in?

"...how long it will take before people start believing in, public or private, poll results again..."

Goldfish spring to mind. The media love polls. Polls will be back and we won't listen to a word of warning about error nor for a moment consider that they are massaged nor who they are procured by.

"...Some parties seemed wedded to soundbites, carefully orchestrated appearances surrounded by the party faithful..."

Agreed. They think they know what works and will stick with it till it fails. I remember the Miliband Moses Monument being mocked mercilessly on Daily Politics. The Labour man retorted that it wasn't meant to play to professional political journalists. It was aimed at ordinary voters. I can see his point: most don't watch Daily Politics. It may have missed though the point is the target for balloons, placards and stones isn't always us.

"the bland interviews of the Frost/Marr Show and the faux aggression of the Today programme"

Politicians want to make their pitch, the media want to fill their screens. A deal of sorts has been struck so both get something out of it.

"...not really persuaded that the rejection of Liberal Democrats was simply a function their being the junior partners in an FPTP coalition..."

If there was a Post War fptp example of a third party doing better after a spell as a junior partner my cynicism may be abated on this point.

"...credibility was dented by the number of faux pas..."

Give the man a shot at leadership in an election - he's owed that much. The Liberal Democrats were oafs.
.
"...pre-elect'on prediction that 'The LDs will be OK.'..."

Quite.

"...they are eight times as big as UKIP..."

They could be infinitely bigger if Carswell gets fed up of feeling lonely.

bs

hi rg

Busy at the moment so I'll reply later, but just having watched the lat four episodes of 1864 in row. I'm not sure that watching the final episode(s) then catching up earlier ones later is a good idea. It's the kind of story you have to watch from the beginning to understand the denoument.

bs

Hi Bx4

I'll take your advice and await the replay!

bs

Hi rg

Certainly a good idea a large amount of characters and subplots which people who have missed an episode became confused.

Watched last two episode last preceded by a repeat of coverage of 1975 referendum on 'Political Highlights'

Episode 7 covering the Battle of Dybbol was awe-inspiring. Episode 8 on the aftermath was less impressive.

bs

Hi Bx4

1864 1975

I'll look out for 1864 in the nine o'clock BBC4 slot (as a repeat). In the event that Saturday I was treated to SO's TV so no 1975. I think it fair to say the UK was another country then. This time round 'Yes' looks like having an easy win everywhere; even The Western Isles might come around this time (insert smiley).

Got into a discussion on Tunnocks Tea Cakes in Mustardland this morning. See you forgot all about this export to the UK the other day and for me it's the most relevant. No wonder I struggle with weight so much I like my sugary chocolate covered treats.

The discussion on 'UK - status quo, Federation or disbandment?' has reached a surreal level. I think it's time to spend a little more time in the real world!

bs

hi rg

'1864'
If it is repeated. I can' recall if 'Borgen'. Other Nordic programmes will feature on ITV Encore and Sky Arts, but, iirc, neither is accessible to you/

'1975 is another country'

The repeat of the coverage of the 1975 referendum made that clear; No women, an excess of received pronunciation, an absence of trendy sets/graphics, Union 'barons', Bill Rodgers (pre-Social Democrat Party), Enoch Powell (post-Tory Party), etc. I couldn't figure out why it was on 'Political Highlights' until I remembered Pravda-in-the wen's enthusiasm for anniversaries that are multiples of ten (Cf D-Day).

''Yes' looks like having an easy win everywhere;'

Indeed, which is why I am surprised that Cameron doesn't agree to a 'double lock' since this would derail the SNP agenda.

'even The Western Isles might come around this time'

We didn't go to the Western Isles till much later though I had been to Shetland a couple of years earlier to visit a friend for Up Helly Aa'. Life was pretty basic and marginal there as, by all accounts, was on the Western Isles. It doesn't surprise me that the two groups of islands most remote from the Wen voted against the EEC whic they probably thought likely to be more remote and indifferent than Westminster had shown itself to be.

The EEC/EU regional policy implemented under Objective 1 and Objective 2 has changed the attitudes on the Western Isles to it though attitudes to Westminster remain unchanged which may explain why they returned the SNP's Winnie Ewing in 1979 before FPTP was abandoned and the multi-member Highlands and Islands super constituency was formed.

'Tunnocks Tea Cakes'

Never be much of a fan, My nemesis was Moorlands Munch, a sort of wholefood flapjack, once made in Northumberland,iirc, but no longer. I never had a particularly sweet tooth as I grew up during postwar rationing and was ten when sweet rationing ended:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/5/newsid_2737000/2737731.stm

So I never really got the habit.

'a little more time in the real world!'

I feel the same but opportunities to wind up barndoor, Shropshire Lad and Haesten are difficult to resist.

bs

Hi Bx4

"...ITV Encore and Sky Arts..."

You are right I don't have these. Sky Arts I had when the station was new and used to enjoy opera (never thought that I would). It morphed into an MTV. The ITV channel is quite new and shows repeats if the promos are a guide. I'm actually happy with a small number of channels. For years SO and I had no TV - we kept on being offered sets by relatives. Eventually we let Grandma's 'hand down' through the door. We got satellite and didn't get on with it. It just happens that where we live there is limited Freeview without fancy commercial channels. That's OK by me. So 1864 shall have to wait for BBC4.

"...surprised that Cameron doesn't agree to a 'double lock' since this would derail the SNP agenda..."

Maybe it would? Maybe it would be perceived as another step toward independence? Maybe there is a worry of appearing to capitulate to the nationalists? I don't know - any of these three or none. I've noticed that the SNP are enthusiastic attenders in the HoC. They'll be looking for successes. Meanie English types may wish to deny them?

"...Western Isles (and the EU)..."

I was jesting about the Isles voting 'No' in the forthcoming poll. As you know (though my soothsaying is often wrong) my instinct is for a "Yes" result in every constituency across the land. That said I was surprised at the closeness of the DP mini poll (mood box) result. That said the chat in the 'betting shop' suggests Farage will be a hindrance to "No". I can see that he hurt UKIP with his 'resign and come-back' in an afternoon. Farage as guarantor for " Yes"?

"...Moorlands Munch..."

One good thing to come out of sugar rationing was better teeth? All to the good. I've got what what a French dentist called 'coca-cola' teeth! Yuk. I have started the day with porridge and an apple. Downhill all the way now...

"...opportunities to wind up..."

More fun than Sky Arts or ITV Encore?

bs

Hi rg.

A much delayed reply. Still trying to detach from Mustardland- The Rerun. Wumming Bardoor can be quite addictive but I amgetting bored so.....

'Sky Arts'

Sky Arts mysteriously shrunk from two to one channel last week. I don't really watch it much except for The Legacy'

'Opera'

My musical tastes are quite catholic and include choral music from Gregorian chant to haydn but opera has never really done it for me with the exception some 20th century composers, Weill, Glass etc.


'ITV Encore'

It seems to be mostly repeats but 'Jordskott' isn't, so rather an odd channel to show it on.



'Capitulate to the nationalists'

It may be the case but the Tories watering down the Smith Commission recommendations in the Scotland Bill isn't going down well. Particularly since the cross party committee that looked at it at Holyrood unaminously agreed that it didn't meet the recommendations of the report. Oddly Tory tanker girl Ruth Davidson is also making noises about greater devolution beyond Smith. Perhaps in an attempt to make the party moe attractive in Scotland.

'I've noticed that the SNP are enthusiastic attenders in the HoC.'

Indeed Wee Jimmy after his anti-clapping hissy fit has complimented them on this. Quite odd seeing one corner of the HoC full when the Goverment/Official opposition benches are so sparsely occupied.

'Meanie English types'

I'm not sure it matters. Realpolitik is all. If the Goverment is inflexible then it plays into the narrative of another independence referendum.

'Western Isles'

Yes, I knew you were joking. Of course I wasn't there when the previous referendum took place but I think the 'No' resulted from the view that the EC simply represented another layer of remote government. That changed when the EC/EU regional policies kicked in and the islands benefited from them. Now the EU is looked on more favourably than Westminster.

'DP mini poll'

As you know I don't watch DP but I agree a 'Yes' vote seems likely. Farage's persona as a chummy beer supping man of the people seems to have been holed below the waterline and he may be something of a spent force. You may be right that his interventions will improve the chance of a 'Yes' vote.

'Better teeth'

You are probably right. I recall that the population was suppose to have been at his healthiest during the wartime/post war austerity. That being said we were somewhat insulated from the austerity as we had relatives who were farmers.


Mine are OK with the help of a good, albeit expensive, dentist

'Breakfast'

Sadly because of my type II diabetes I have had to give up the traditional Frühstück and confine myself to sugar-free cereals and fruit. V. boring.


'wind up'

As I said above, I'm getting bit bored with it.

bs

Hi Bx4

"...Wumming..."

Yes I think fits and spurts is the way to go with Mustard. I'm sure that like me you have other interests even if they are domestic and mundane like the microwave turntable suddenly getting stuck. A chance to get the tools out on the kitchen table.

"...Sky Arts mysteriously shrunk from two to one..."

Back to the future? Back to how it was during our time with Sky. I have a Gregorian chant LP somewhere though doubt if this counts as a musical taste. I've currently got some Samoans ('prog rock') lined up.

"...Tory tanker girl Ruth Davidson is also making noises about greater devolution beyond Smith..."

What is this - getting down with the kids? It won't work the brand is poison. Might as well stick with picking up any anti nationalist reactionary vote. Leave nationalism to those who have made it an art form.

"...plays into the narrative of another independence referendum..."

Fear shouldn't dictate policy. If independence is inevitable then let them get on with it. Should Sturgeon pitch up to Cameron and demand a referendum the only response should be 'when'?

"...when the EC/EU regional policies kicked in..."

This still looks like buying votes from here. A happy coincidence that UK taxes paid into EU funds are diverted to a 'No' constituency?

"...Farage's persona as a chummy beer supping man of the people seems to have been holed..."

From the UKIP point of view I'd have thought that it would have been better that Farage had left gracefully. Every time he appears on TV is to be reminded of why any ambition to be a national party is limited to the extent of his popularity. I don't think English choice should be limited to the big three (the Greens are too 'out there' imv).

"...the traditional Frühstück..."

Crumbs I hope it is going OK with the diabetes? I won't tell you what breakfast/snacks has been thus far!

bs

hi rg

'fits and spurts'

Indeed, have been neglecting boxer a bit and transferring CDs/LPs to Brennan. Anyhow I seem to have silenced Brennan's constant promotion of the 'It woz the SNP wot dunnit' meme. (Allegra Stratton clip from Newsnight clip was something of a nadir for him).

Surprised he missed the Nick Clegg 'it wasn't me who lost it' moment brought Mandy Rice-Davis comes to mind.

Meanwhile, that other 'infamous' Liberal Democrat ex-Coalition drone Alistair Carmichael seems to be trying to revive his flagging career:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alistair-carmichael-slams-david-cameron-5945309

Apparently the Scottish Office has kicked back an FOI request to release the memo since knowing who sent it and to whom ' “could potentially damage the bilateral relationship between the UK and France”,

I never feel quite comfortable on Mustarland since since I always feel the disapproval of the 'old guard' who seem to regard it as a virtual cosy English tearoom.

I accidentally fell foul of one of these cadres when I mistakenly got involved in the GCSE thread discussing a not particularly difficult maths question I found my post transferred tho the long running and extremely weird 'Maths Oh dear thread' and fell afoul of susukifluff and her bevy of acolytes.



'Gregorian Chant'

Oddly when I opened your post I was listening to a Choralscola Der Wiener Hofburgkapelle CD.


'Samoans ('prog rock')'

I'm afraid they passed me by. I got involved in prog' rock' in the in the 70s, The Nice, ELP, Van der Graaf Generator, Pink Floyd, Tull etc but curiously not Genesis, Procul Harum or the Moody Blues.


' getting down with the kids?'

Apparently the Scottish Conservatives see themselves becoming a second biggest party in Scotland.


'an art form.'

I don't think the Unionists get the difference between 'civic nationalism' and the 'ethnic nationalism' that Cameron tried to exploit in England.


'Fear shouldn't dictate policy.'

I agree though it will be interesting to see how the EU supporters will react when exposed to their own version of 'Project Fear'.


I have always been puzzled by the Tories' desire to keep Scotland in the Union. I mean you could understand why pre-debacle Labour and Liberal Democrats would want to preserve their 'guaranteed' reservoir of Scottish seats but the Tories...



'A happy coincidence'

Not really:

More than one third of the EU's budget is devoted to the EU's regional policy, which aims to remove economic, social and territorial disparities across the EU.'

In which context the Western Isles is pretty small beer. Moreover, because of its rebates the UK pays a lower percentage of its GNI to the EU than any other country.


'left gracefully'

Or if he hadn't pretended that he was going to leave at all. I agree that he has irreparably damage UKIP by his making UKIP look like a one man band rather than a serious political party. Still looking on the bright side the cult of the Little Englander has thereby taken a dent.


' OK with the diabetes?'

No problem, even the elevated blood sugar isn't very high so to celebrate I had a full German Frühstück this morning.

bs

'fits and spurts'

Hi Bx4

Internet very shaky. Hope for better access soon till then just hi for now.

bs

PS - v pleased to read of breakfast and will celebrate with cooked tomorrow.

Hi Bx4

I'm back (I think)

"...constant promotion of the 'It woz the SNP wot dunnit' meme...Clegg 'it wasn't me who lost it' moment..."

These days (well for as long as I can remember) the TV has seemed to provide the defining moments in General Elections. In 2010 Clegg mania brought out "I agree with Nick" and "bigot" grandma; neither of which cast the unelected Brown in favourable light. In 2015 stuck opinion polls and the dubious SNP tactic of siding up to Labour (on condition they became "something better") stuck in my mind. Then again I'm me and everyone else isn't.

"...Apparently the Scottish Office has kicked back an FOI request to release the memo since knowing who sent it and to whom ' “could potentially damage the bilateral relationship between the UK and France”, smiley - doh..."

So we will not learn everything there is to know of this (Alistair Carmichael) affair? We have half the story and of that I trust nought. Again it could just be me and everyone else is still on a different track.

"...I always feel the disapproval of the 'old guard' who seem to regard it as a virtual cosy English tearoom..."

Yes I know what you mean. Contributors often stick together like birds of a feather. I think it fair to say that there is also a strong Scottish presence. Do the Scots have tearooms? 'Your' susukifluff is Scottish based iirc.

"...the Scottish Conservatives see themselves becoming a second biggest party in Scotland..."

Do they mean by membership, votes or Westminster seats?

"...I don't think the Unionists get the difference between 'civic nationalism' and the 'ethnic nationalism' that Cameron tried to exploit in England..."

The subtlety is somewhat lost on me. Both suggest an exclusive political entity chiseled out from an existing structure. I did hear something about a 'solution' to the West Lothian Question on the radio this morning. The proposal seemed wishy washy to say the least. To me the only practical solution is Scottish independence.

"...it will be interesting to see how the EU supporters will react when exposed to their own version of 'Project Fear'..."

How would that work? I'd have thought more uncertainty would reside with 'No'?

"...I have always been puzzled by the Tories' desire to keep Scotland in the Union..."

Pass - don't know!

"...the UK pays a lower percentage of its GNI to the EU than any other country..."

Gross national income? Surely what's at issue is money out versus money in?

"...Or if [Farage] hadn't pretended that he was going to leave at all. I agree that he has irreparably damage UKIP..."

Quite so. That said if the party were to go up in a puff of smoke tomorrow would UKIP minded voters dutifully march back to traditional parties?

"...a full German Frühstück this morning..."

A disrupted affair at this end. Instantly forgettable. Must try harder.

bs