h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Good news/bad news.

The good news is that Lua doesn't have any metastasis.

The bad news is that she would need to have *all* of her breasts taken out, one side at a time. So TWO operations. And each operation would cost 250 euros.

I don't have 500 euros.

And putting Lua through two operation just seems like too much. Even though the vet told me he has done the same op on cats older than Lua and that they would also do an electro to check her heart first. He said he could do the first op on Thursday and the second one about 20 days after that. And then I looked at him and burst into tears. Because I really don't think I can do this. Not for me, not for Lua.



az

Its not fair that these decisions are so hard.

Oh dear, az, I was hoping you would be able to decide one way or the other.

Hi Az

I have avoided most of this conversation because though I have always shared my place with cats, and always will, I get a bit choked on how some people view them (far too much sugar for my liking...uuurgh).

There comes a time in most domestic cats' lives when their human partners have to make a decision based on suffering vs continued existence. It isn't easy, but one should consider what would Lua's chances have been if s/he were a feral street cat? Lua has had an excellent life I am sure in your care, so now you have to take the decision only a true friend can take.

Make it quick and painless and you will be blessed.

As a druid I can only comfort you with the knowledge that the spirits of all higher animals transmigrate and continue in other lives. I have met them in the otherworld and recognised their true forms. Thus as this Lua fades from view somewhere a new kitten Lua will come into existence.

As most cat-friends know, once an opening in your life for a cat occurs a new cat will soon be along to fill it. It is part of their magic, so you won't be alone for long.

Blessings,
holwch /|\.

That's really so hard.

I just wish I knew what to advise.

Noggin

do not know what say

..keeps thinking positive healing thoughts

Oh, Az....

az

Bring her home and love her. Look after her while she is happy, look after her when she grows sad, then go with her at the end, hold her and love her.

She will be Lua again. Either for a different person, who also needs her as she needs them, as Math sees, or as herself, walking confidently through the nine worlds, as are the cats I have seen.

There is no right or wrong decision. There is only the way it is. The way of Wyrd.

YOU are not the one who makes her decisions. She made them herself, when she arrived at your hand all those years ago. And in my eyes, which are not yours, I know that, I see that you have shared all she needed.

You have already fulfilled everything she came to you for.

Now, she needs you to look after her through this last experience.

Even this, this is part of it, az. The difficulty is what makes you good companions. Nothing that is worth having is easy.

Jez - who knows this makes nothing easier for you, but is saying what she thinks needs to be said anyway.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am sitting here in the office, all welling up with tears....

az

I actually went out to work today for the first time in a week (since Jake went away) and so have only just caught up with the news.



It sounds like you have an understanding vet now at least. Is there any way, if you decide that she has the ops, to pay off the amount in installments? 500 euros does sound like an awful lot - but really a decision shouldn't have to be arrived at because of money. That is not fair on either of you.

Have you thought of insurance? It's far too late now I know - but it might be of some use in the future, especially if more cats decide to adopt you.

I had petplan insurance for Jake - and thanks be for that. If I had not had it I would be looking at a bill of £600 (890 euros) and I couldn't possibly have afforded that. As it is I just got a claim form, filled in my bit and sent it to the vet. They are dealing with it now. I couldn't have coped with it all on top of the grief.

I wish you strength and send you and Lua lots of

Lady

Mudhooks,

I think the river I cried at the vet's has left me feeling a bit drained . . . I actually feel strangely calm at the moment. Not crying. At the moment.


Everyone,

Thanks for all your replies and for caring so much. Lua must be the most famous cat on h2g2 by now.

I really need to make up my mind before I drive myself - and everybody else - totally mental. Cos if you think I'm only carrying on about Lua here, think again. There have been emails, telephone calls (both local and long distance), msn chats, and of course it's the first thing my students ask me about at the beginning of every class now (a couple of them have even taken to text messaging me after vet trips, which is very kind).

I wish Lua could say something other than 'ack'.

az

Sorry about the news i had thought that removeall of all was best option, suprised in two ops though,i thought it was done as one op?
Mind you the last one i could recall was a eight year old .

Has the vet given you any idea if it is fast growing,have any of your Dr Freinds found out any thing re "generic treatments" that would be used for a "jehovas witness " if the patient was human that can also be used on animals.Many of these where tested on animals before becomeing safe for us.So if you decided not to have op you can try
tablets,to help ,how is the growth ,? some take years to grow ,and as you said you rarely if ever get the chance to examine her.

On subject henry next time you checking pics on catskittens link
apply to join as i use the page as web page whilst i am learning to come to grips with computers.

will catch up with backlog now

hi logicus,

Generic treatments? It seems to get more and more complicated. Last I thought Lua *might* have to go through *one* operation to remove the tumour (which was bad enough). Then on Friday I was told they'd have to remove all four breasts on that side - a more dangerous (and expensive) operation. And *then* I'm told that she needs *two* operations! (apparently because she shouldn't stay under the anaesthetic that long).

Meanwhile I was very surprised to find out that she had no metastasis. I mean, this tumour is the size of a walnut and I have no idea how long it's been there. And nothing has spread? Don't get me wrong, I don't want Lua to have metastasis, it just seems almost unbelievable.

Head spinning, must get to work!

az

Az, I am sorry you still have such a dilemma.

I am going to stick my neck out here and say that if Lua was my I wouldn't put her through the operations. Not because of the expense but because of the weeks of trauma she will go through.

They are much more accepting creatures than us and it is our wish to cling on to them and not to lose their affection and company that sometimes prolongs their lives when nature would have told them to quietly find a peaceful place to die.

I don't suppose I have helped you at all and I may seem heartless, but my thought is for the , who will go through the operations and not understand why.

I am thinking of you both

hi Caerwynn,

You know, that's a question I've been asking myself all this time - would I really be putting Lua through an operation for her or for me? I mean, if she were younger and it were a less serious illness and operation I wouldn't think twice. Like when I had her spayed - she was only five and there was no problem.

Anyhow, just off the phone from talking to the first vet (the x-ray and ultrasound were done at the high-tech vet's). I told her what high-tech vet said - that he recommended taking out all the breasts on both sides during two operations. She said she knows this is now becoming common procedure but that she wouldn't do that herself. She would only remove the tumour and surrounding tissue, unless she saw during the operation that the cancer was obviously spreading to the other breasts, in which case she would remove all four on the one side as long as Lua was responding well to the anaesthetic.

She said that removing all the breasts like that is a very aggressive procedure and there are risks of complications afterwards from haemorrhaging to swollen paws. She also said that if too much tissue has to be removed due to the tumour this can also cause complications with the wound not healing properly. And well, there were more things but now I can't remember them all. Basically she was giving me a very thorough understanding of what *could* go wrong, though she also said that perhaps nothing would go wrong.

Then she gave me a long explanation of what could happen to Lua if I don't operate, basically what would happen if the cancer spreads to other organs, which I won't go into. It wasn't pleasant, though to be honest, it didn't seem much more unpleasant than the worst of the possible complications from the operations, one of which is also death. One other point she made was that even though the x-ray and ultrasound didn't show any metastasis this didn't mean for sure that cancer cells hadn't spread, only that visible tumours hadn't formed yet.

I told her I was having such a hard time deciding what to do, what would be the best thing. She said to me that if Lua were younger she would strongly advise me to go through with the operation to remove the tumour (not all the breasts). She then said that given Lua's age, in her opinion either decision (to operate or not) would be a well-taken one and so she could not advise me to do one or the other.

I think that even if someone handed me 500€ tomorrow I would still feel so unsure that operating was the best option. I think I know now that I'm not going to put Lua through all that. Even though we might face other horrors when the cancer eventually spreads. But there is also no guarantee that the cancer won't end up spreading anyhow. Also, Lua wouldn't understand why I would keep taking her back to the vet's to have painful and scary things done to her. But I think she will understand when she starts feeling bad that I am doing my best to take care of her.

No wonder I couldn't decide this before - it just feels so terrible! You see, there isn't actually a 'right' or 'good' decision to make. Just the one I hope is best for Lua.

But if this *is* the best thing then why can't I stop crying and how come my heart feels so broken?

az

Because you are already grieving for her and it is perfectly understandable.

I am glad you have had a long chat to your vet, she sounds very kind and caring.

How fast is the tumour likely to grow and how soon would it interfere with Lua's grooming? It may be worth considering the smaller operation to remove the tumour (if the tumour was going to grow quickly and cause more problems) and then spoil her rotten, allowing nature to take it's course. That way you know you have done everything yuu can for her and given her a fighting chance.

If the only choice was the big double operation I would stand by my earlier view it would have been too much to put Lua through. But just removing the tumour only would be much quicker and less traumatic.

dear azahar,

I think your vet friend is right to say that such big operation is too dangerous. if was you I would only let them remove cancerous part and then let Lua be spoilt...

you have been very caring person for your cats. I know the cats know that. they feel loved, even cranky Lua. you should remember that.

always thinking of Lua and you.
pheloxi

Compassion anf Empathy are Strong Emotions ,some of us cannot helped to be moved by such basic emotions,it takes a strong control to for instence not to go to a funeral for example of someone who was much loved ,even when "we" do not know the person "we" cannot help but feel sad.Most of us will get joy from attending celibrations ect.

As for the decision both decisions are right as to treat the "cancer?"
by operateing or not,(if) it spreads? (if) the operation works .Any decision you take will be right, many would have not even thought about "investigateing" the lump in first place!

Lua still eating and acking ,"tolerateing" sonny az, there behaviour/company will help you dureing this difficult time

There is no obvious right and wrong, or best way to deal with this. You still have to face that Lua is ill, even if you do the best for her. Pets are wonderful, we share their lives and hold amazing responsibilities in looking after them, but it can hurt so much each and every time. But it is worth it, always.

<>

Well, I was thinking that any operation would be risky for her at her age. And the tumour removal one, although simpler than the other one, could still result in having to remove so much surrounding tissue that the wound wouldn't heal properly. It might also result in having the four breasts removed if the vet finds the cancer has spread there once Lua is opened up.

I don't know how long the tumour has been there so I can't tell how quickly it has grown and can't know how quickly it will grow in future.

I'd love to give her a fighting chance. I just don't know if that is possible or what would be the best way to do that.

Meanwhile, ole Justin the Preacher has been providing some much needed distraction therapy. And I have to go to work shortly. Have stopped crying but still feel terribly sad.

Thanks everyone.

az