h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Jabbs!

Put it this way.....

Was that a bird flying by, or did someone throw a stone..........



?
GT

In the cave, the people come and go,
And talk of shadows and Plato.

Right i'm off to find that poem!

Heres one of mine, without to much ryhme or any reason


A clown opens a box, and pulls out the same words, that enlightened people use to good affect - to convey: the gentle, truthful, fruitful; things of life. As the clown picks out each word; his chances are still as good as any mans, as long as he picks well and does not dwell on the meaning of the passage and the phrase-or better still--keeps it short and sweet; mysterious, and maybe deep. Although no-one listens to me right now, or counts my words as good advice; maybe it's just aswell, being a clown suits me not- i know my place within the plot--i think!

Something to think about

I will definately get another copy of the Republic

- although most of it isn't about our subject at all, but about the good governance of states, don't forget myk.



Jabs

I've seen criticism of "The Republic" for its almost naive assumption that the elders of a ocmmunity could pick spouses for young people better than the young people themselves. This notion would never fly in our society.

In Plato's defense, though, he did not have what the intervening years of history have taught us....

history have taught us ?might have, BUT throughout history, we've never learned the lessons, so nothing has really changed from Plato's days as such

Theoretically, it sounds good. Rule by the brightest (guess who - the philosophers!), but it would require a suffocatingly tyrannical and stratified society..................

For many Greeks, democracy, rule by the demos,the people = rule by the mob.



Jabs

What have I stumbled on here? Seems like a fascinating, if futile, discussion. Can we continue it at the pub?

Some interesting questions have been raised or implied. Who was Jabs' philosophy tutor? What books is GT writing? Can you smoke in heaven? But the answer is probably 42.

I don't really see much point in speculating about what happens after death, "The undiscovered country from whose bourn No traveller returns", but hell! it can be fun.

I loved that 'etachment' typo. It sounds like the sort of attachment you should have to your virtual - or cyber - friends.

Personally, I'm an atheist, a materialist and a sceptic when it comes to psychic phenomena. And yet I would still claim to have a 'spiritual' side. I think it's just a continuum of thought and feeling.

I'm not very keen on religion, either. It has been of the utmost importance, historically and culturally, but I think it is time to move on. I forget my Nietzsche now, but wasn't his idea that religion is a 'white lie' that modern man should have outgrown? "God is dead." Sounds about right to me. There ain't no Santa Claus.

Didn't someone (Paul?) suggest that a lot of these ideas are best addressed in a poetic medium? I think that may be right. I certainly find them hard to grasp/express otherwise. I try and understand them by concentrating my mind, but it's like focussing on a star: only when you relax your vision do you see all the others. There are echoes in poetry. There are echoes in poetry. There are...

Bugger! It's time I went to bed.

The only promising religious idea I've heard of in the last half century has been the Templeton Foundation, which awards an annual prize to people who have contributed to progress in religion. We have to move forward. Yes, there are people who still try to peddle creationism in the schools or try to steer young Muslim students away from scientific careers. Birth control is still a no-no in Catholic circles, and we don't even want to talk about the touchy subject of gay rights with some religious groups. But somehow, like an ancient bus that has to be jump-started every time we ride in it, the world just has to keep going....

Sorry, I should have added - and fully intended to - with regard to being an atheistic, materialistic sceptic, that there may be more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

BTW, has anyone read Chris Hedges' book "I Don't Believe in Atheists"? It sounds very interesting.

see post 44for alternatives

Here's a relevant post that I made in another thread:

that we are made with the capacity to feel the need for deep spiritual truths. Atheism is also a spiritual position of a sort. Maybe there is a different plane of existence where reality seems clearer.

It took me decades, but I finally figured out what made the early Roman Empire open to the idea of an immortal god, which eventually opened the way for widespread adoption of Christianity as the official state religion. It started when the emperors like JNuklius Caesar and his nephew Octavian (a.k.a. Caesar Agustus) died. The populace deified them, regarding them as immortal. When ordinary people die, they can (and usually are) forgotten sooner or later. It's different with gods, who are immortal and therefore still "alive." So, if you want to make sure that someone with special qualities willo be remembered, you try to have that person designated as an immortal. If Jesus had not been designated as the Son of God, would his memory have been kept alive? Not all that likely, as there were other people around who also preached some pretty good stuff.

We come into the world hoping to make some sort of mark and fulfill our potential. Sooner or later, we realize how big the world is, and how unspecial we are. What can we do about this? Well, one option is to join a religious sect that promises immortality. We may not become famous or rich in this life, but eternity is ours