h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Here's an interesting idea,that I probably can't put into words. If a belief is true to a person, does that make the belief true?
I mean,if you really believe something,then it must be true to you, though it might not be true to others.
I used to tell my son that Santa was only real if you believed in him, and it was dissapointing to adults, because they stopped believing and therefore it wasn't true to them.

Prof animal Chaos- a friend of mine has just gone into hospital with mania. He phoned me yesterday insisting that his psychiatrist has brain damage!

Hi Vi,
I think people believe pretty much what they WANT to believe...

"If a belief is true to a person" == Maybe you need a different word than "belief".? .. I could believe the ice on the pond was safe....But that is not going to make it so.... and I could go on & on with examples of that sort... To me things are either an opinion or fact..... . .. . .. ...

Ginger's right, Vi. Belief that something is true doesn't make it true. Even if everyone believed the earth was flat it wouldn't make the earth flat. 'Subjective truth' means no more than opinion, faith or belief.

Jab

You've put your finger on something, Jab. I think it's something fairly big. The question is, does the universe exist, with its own innate laws, independent of us? Or, are we, as individuals, the only reality, with everyone merely figments of our imaginations. Some people will recognize the second option as a sign of solipsism, which in its extreme state qualifies one for a mental hospital.
However, life can get extremely painful for people who try to steadfastly adhere to the first option. If you've lost someone you loved in a cruel freak accident, it's 100% understandable that your mind would try to protect itself by cobbling together an explanation that softens the impersonal vagaries of the universe.

Lewis Carroll made solipsism into entertainment with his creation of the Queen of Hearts and the red King. Was Alice in the Red King's dream, or was the Red King in Alice's dream? Are they both in Carroll's dream?

Paul -

"The question is, does the universe exist, with its own innate laws, independent of us? Or, are we, as individuals, the only reality, with everyone [and everything] merely figments of our imaginations"

The fact is WE DON'T KNOW, and we can't even guess at how we might find out. The question defeats philosophy - the rule of thumb most philosophers use is that no-one has been able so far successfully to argue logically against solipsism, but to take it too seriously leads you to the gates of the madhouse. Rule of thumb rather than an argument.

The arguments of Descartes lead to solipsism - but then at the end he invokes God as being the ultimate non-deceiver. His personal deus ex machina.

Fascinating stuff, Paul.

Jab

Paul, yes that's part of what I was trying to say. On the one hand,,we can't help but being the center of our own worlds,whether we like it or not, but we can affect our lives, {and those of others} by what we think, our attitudes and how we think it.

On t'other hand (i think) recognizing that we are all the same- human, living creatures, is in my opinion the most important step on the road to maturity. There are some out there who just haven't cottoned on to that idea, and they're hard to understand, difficult to communicate with, generally selfish. They flummox me.

My sister once said that people are feted, by their own personalities.I think that's very true. My belief is that what you think, how you think it, can change the course of your life, your feelings and those of others.

P.S. There is a way if you go for the "We are all one" point of view, that you can get through personal disasters more easily. I've been trying to practice it for some time. At the moment I have a personal disaster' foistered upon me and my son, by one of those people who can only see that they exist, and lack empathy for others, disregard the consequences of their actions.
The attitude I've taken is to allow myself to not take it personally, I know I'm not to blame. Yes I'm upset, but I'm thinking about the effect on my son more. I know I couldn't have coped with this, 20 years ago. Now I know that I can and I will. My son is being quite amazing, and I'm really proud of him. He has cottoned on to my attitude,that bad things will happen, and you don't allow them to get to you.
It's an attitude that has other good effects, when something nice happens to someone else you could be envious, by taking this (we are all one) point of view, you can celebrate their victory as though it was your own. Vi

Last year I became very enthusiastic about a book called "Ghosts of Vesuvius," by Charles Pellegrino. The book covers many different topics, but the one that really opened my eyes was that of the limbic brain, which sets mammals apart from reptiles. The limbic brain is all about connecting to other mammals by means of positive emotions. The negative emotions are generated by the part of the brain that we share with reptiles. So, we essentially have multiple brains, and they fight with each other. An event can bring out negative feleings in the reptilian part of your brain, and positive emotions in the limbic part.

But mostly our minds (as are those of all mammals) want (and, perhaps, need) to connect with others.

The book I'm enthusiastic about this year is "Mrs. Astor regrets," by Meryl Gordon. There was evidently a love-hate relationship between Mrs. Astor and her son Tony. At one point, the author talks about the acrimonious divorce that tore young Tony away from his favorite nanny, followed by neglect, meaning that he never got the unconditional love that he needed. Love. We need it. Our brains are wired for a lifelong search for it. If we are thwarted, we can always still be reptiles .

How interesting! I shall get that book. I,ve always looked upon reptiles as "one of us".I visited a zoo some time ago, and was really upset to see a live mouse in with a snake for its lunch.But I feel sorry for snakes too, here in Australia,they are considered the enemy. People run them over with tractors. Self-protection I s'pose, but it seems to me they have as much right to be here as us. One day, if we're still around, I'm sure man will look back on his misdeeds to animalkind in the same way e look back at the holocaust, slavery, etc now.

Thanks for recipes, I'll try and reply in more poetic form, and I shall make up the creamy bean sauce and sweet potato casserole. Sounds gorgeous. Meanwhile I'm adding you to my friends list Paul, if that's O.K.with you.
Vi

Cry the butcher bird,
From whom all birds must flee.
Live by death, like me.

All creatures survive by killing something else. Even vegetarians are killing some form of plant life. I like to watch birds feeding, but have to realise that each peck of their beak in the ground signals the death of some poor creepy crawly creature. I read somewhere, it might have been here, that an artist painted a picture of a woman giving birth over an open grave. So grim. so true.

All we can do is make the death of other creatures have some meaning by living as good a life as we are able. Remember to thank them for their gift.

life is never good

life is never bad

life is just life

life is what you make of it

however: not all of us are born with the talent to make life great. take the depressed, for example. you can't order a depressed to put on a smile and go out and embrace the world with an open and positive mind

well, you can, of course - but you won't accomplish anything

my latest addition to my P/S

Life is NOT how you make it, because you need money to make it...
Life is HOW to make the best with what you have at this moment...

I don't know if this makes sense to other's but it sort of does to me

Life is neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so.

Hamlet, Act II, scene i




[slight paraphrase]

Jab

Thanks, Violet. I hope I can be worthy of being on your friends list. I hope you'll get used to my wackiness.

The analogy I'm the most fond of regarding life is that we all have to play the hands we've been dealt. As a solitaire addict, I find it necessary to surrender more than a few games.

Thanks Paul-me be wacky too. Nothing like a bit of wackiness. I'm only too pleased to be a touch peculiar.

Prof Chaos, don't reckon rich would be much fun, Ben Elton in "Stark" points out that having 6 mansions, 5 yachts, a couple of plains etc is really pretty pointless, you can only live in one house at a time.

What is really good fun is resourcefulness, brings out the creative juices, and is much more rewarding, You want something-you make it, you get precisely what you wanted, because it's made by you. If you can't make it, you can figure out other ways to get it, and you don't have to spend heaps, you can figure out what it's worth to you, and work on that. I think it's a really good way of life, and closer to how things are meant to be. Having more money than necessary makes people spend more than necessary, and they forget to consider the true worth of stuff. I don't think stuff is worth much. People, animals, plants, enjoying yourself, achieving,and recognizing yourself as a fairly decent person are the important things, to me anyway.

I'd hate to worry about losing my millions!

wise words, retiringviolet

hamlet was a wise guy too

you play the cards you are dealt and that's that

in civilized countries you help people who do not have jobs, health, family and such by paying taxes. in others your family members and neighbours are left to charity

They're left to charity?

I hope the local wolves are charitable then. And where there be dragons, let's hope there are St. georges as well.

best thing I ever lost, was my sanity and if anyone ever finds I don't want it back thanks

You OK Prof?

Jab

He sounds OK to me.