This is the Message Centre for Jabberwock
CERN
Jabberwock Posted Sep 23, 2008
All together now
We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the Garden(alternative theory)
One verse=universe?
Jab
CERN
winternights Posted Sep 23, 2008
I like the following two approaches being, “the laws of quantum mechanics ultimately determine how I deduce the laws of quantum mechanics, which appears to be fully circular argument and therefore logically difficult to sustain”.
Also according to Einstein, the universe exist all at once and everything that has happened and will happen is already there.
CERN
Jabberwock Posted Sep 23, 2008
Yep. I don't know the first but it sounds very likely. But the philosopher Kant first suggested that time was in our heads, not out there, emphasised in a different way by Einstein's bending and shaping time in different ways even if it is out there. Without time everything could well be already there. Or gone already. Or there.
Bye bye common sense!
Jab
CERN
Jabberwock Posted Sep 23, 2008
And if time is the fourth dimension, you could imagine the death and the birth of the universe being simultaneous, with us somewhere in the middle of the time-line and Socrates and Jesus doing their thing at another point along the line at the same time as us being wherever each of us are, living our everyday lives. Within no-time as seen universally, sub specie aeternitatis - from the viewpoint of eternity.
Trouble is, Einstein ruled out simultaneity too. But he could have been wrong of course. And there could be too much common-sense wrapped up in that picture
Jab
CERN
Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. Posted Sep 23, 2008
CERN
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Sep 23, 2008
"But common sense? Best not go there!" [Jabberwock]
It's all I've got, when you get right down to it.
Or up to it.
Or across the universe.
Or just down the hall, where the 9-month Child Development Lab is located.
The thing is, this planet is pretty much our only frame of reference. It was Einstein's frame of reference, too.
CERN
Jabberwock Posted Sep 23, 2008
Although we must go beyond CS if /when we need to. Or we'd still be stuck in the middle ages. Another word for Common Sense might be Preconceptions.
I meant the point about frame of reference being good. We all start from similar beliefs based on our own sense experience on earth.
Jab
CERN
Pierre de la Mer ~ sometimes slightly worried but never panicking ~ Posted Sep 23, 2008
"to dare is to lose your foothold for a moment - not to dare is losing yourself” (søren kierkegaard)
CERN
winternights Posted Sep 23, 2008
Belief !, is it not pointless expecting to get a simple true and false answer from quantum theory.?
If by implying belief, it is in its self an acceptance that an object ceases to be isolated from its environment and the classical notion is instated.
Is belief the same as reality and does consciousness and the mathematical models we use allow us to understand it.?
CERN
Pierre de la Mer ~ sometimes slightly worried but never panicking ~ Posted Sep 23, 2008
belief is belief. you want truth? what if belief is truth?
"science may one day answer the question 'how' - but will it ever answer the question 'why?" (jens martin knudsen)
(agnosticist)
CERN
Jabberwock Posted Sep 23, 2008
winternights - I was referring to beliefs based on sense perception, e.g. wood is hard, feathers are soft, the sky is blue.
And Pierce - Modern (Descartes and after)science has never even tried to answer the question 'why', unless it is used as a substitute for 'how', since it sees such questions as unanswerable, certainly unanswerable by the Scientific (experimental) Method. Why does h20 boil at 100 deg. C.? Not a clue, except for all the 'how' questions, why in terms of how. But WHY? we may still ask.
Belief can be true or false of course.
Jab
Cue Descartes jokes
CERN
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Sep 23, 2008
I think I will be a sweet potato in my next life, according to Descartes: I think, therefore a yam.
Quantum theory doesn't have much of an impact on my life.
Heck, I could ignore it completely, even deny its existence, and still not be turned down for the Vice Presidency (assuming I wanted ity, which I don't. )
CERN
Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. Posted Sep 23, 2008
things travelling through space at near or even light speed and with no mass are passing through my head all the timeand I'm expected to know what 8 X 9 equals
CERN
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Sep 23, 2008
Quarks from the original Big Bang (assuming that there ever was one) are passing through the Earth all the time. Your head, my head, Mrs. Murphy's cow, etc.
CERN
Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. Posted Sep 23, 2008
CERN
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Sep 23, 2008
They do all of the above. Chances are, they would go through the Earth's center on the way to your head. Probably there are no cows on the other side of the world...
CERN
Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. Posted Sep 23, 2008
they say all the galaxies are heading away from us at the speed of light, yet not long back, they now say the Andromeda galaxy is heading towards us, so who's turned it round ???
Key: Complain about this post
CERN
- 181: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 182: winternights (Sep 23, 2008)
- 183: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 184: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 185: Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. (Sep 23, 2008)
- 186: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Sep 23, 2008)
- 187: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 188: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 189: Pierre de la Mer ~ sometimes slightly worried but never panicking ~ (Sep 23, 2008)
- 190: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 191: winternights (Sep 23, 2008)
- 192: Pierre de la Mer ~ sometimes slightly worried but never panicking ~ (Sep 23, 2008)
- 193: Jabberwock (Sep 23, 2008)
- 194: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Sep 23, 2008)
- 195: Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. (Sep 23, 2008)
- 196: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Sep 23, 2008)
- 197: Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. (Sep 23, 2008)
- 198: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Sep 23, 2008)
- 199: Prof Animal Chaos.C.E.O..err! C.E.Idiot of H2G2 Fools Guild (Official).... A recipient of S.F.L and S.S.J.A.D.D...plus...S.N.A.F.U. (Sep 23, 2008)
- 200: Pierre de la Mer ~ sometimes slightly worried but never panicking ~ (Sep 24, 2008)
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