h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oh, and I have never had Quorn burgers! Just the chick'n stuff. I'm going to look for their burgers this weekend. Since K loves burgers and isn't supposed to have much red meat on account of his kidney stones, a good veggie burger would make him very happy.

I'm just as happy with the really beany, mealy ones, but I can do beef-like for his sake.

PC Sorry nothing floating in the Miso Soup over here , my wife uses Miso made from rise she said there are 3 kinds of Miso , if thats any help

rise = rice

There's soybean miso and seaweed miso as well, I think. Not sure. Hull is not the epicenter of world cuisine.

pc, try the quorn pepper steaks for K. They'll probably do the trick.

Gotta go and canabalise tables.

Sorry, I was too subtle. I said ' being / world', meaning that a lot of people choose to be vegetarian out of principle for the better karmic state of the world, so to speak, or for their own health.

I know why you've chosen your path - a friend has done much the same.

The thing that perplexed me about her is that she still eats fish happily. When I pointed out that recent research indicates that fish have feelings her answer was 'yeah, but they don't go through abattoirs'.

I didn't really know what to say - I didn't think there was a significant difference in terms of fish suffering and lamb suffering... how can you quantify suffering?

Anyhoooo. Sorry for being vague. I meant people like Moby in his serious veganism phase by the whole 'holier than thou' - he's mellowed out now.

Another point about vegetarianism / veganism - economics! Takes more grain to feed all the cows to feed the humans than to feed the grain direct to the humans equals less strain on the planetary resources. Discuss.

I make miso using miso paste (soybeans), tofu, seaweed, and green onion, and it's good, so I can probably do without the mystery bits. I'll have to be brave next time I eat it at the restaurant, and ask them what the stuff is.

Quorn pepper steaks- check!

Thanks, Anold. Didn't hurt to ask.

I do know some people who eat fish so long as it's line-caught ocean fish. I don't eat it, but I can respect how someone comes to that "difference" in regards to fish.

Once I knew a woman who claimed to be vegetarian but ate fish sticks all the time. Since when are fish sticks vegetables?

Ismarah, it may not be that you were too subtle as that I'm trying so hard not to come across as holier-than-thou that I'm trying not to read into things what's actually there.

>>Another point about vegetarianism / veganism - economics! Takes more grain to feed all the cows to feed the humans than to feed the grain direct to the humans equals less strain on the planetary resources. Discuss.

Always an interesting point, especially nowadays when people are groaning that biofuels will use up all the food. Um, reduce the meat consumption and we won't need as much grain to feed domesticated animals because we won't be raising as many just to eat 'em.

I don't think it'd be cruel to breed fewer domesticated animals, any more than it's wrong for some people to not make babies. We don't have to cut back to the brink of extinction, but there's nothing wrong with breeding less, is there?

We had a Talking Point about that a few weeks back...

My sister says she refuses to eat "anything with ears", meaning fish and poultry are ok

I used to say I wouldn't eat anything with eyes. But then some smartass piped in with "but you'll eat potatoes, won't you?".

We usually have these potlucks at my office, and generally speaking mine is the only dish I cn touch. Once, one of the accountants tried really hard to make something she thought I could have, and made a Jell-o salad and rice krispy treats.



A girl can make some absolutely decadent, but not terribly unhealthy, krispy treats with ricemallow and some vegan "butter".

The thing is, we can't *all* go vegetarian without going vegan - because then there would be a lot of "useless" male animals.

True, with the exception of roosters because chicken lay eggs more frequently, unless I'm mistaken there?


Wouldn't kill people to go vegan, either. We'd be healthier (my switch to vegan was as much for health reasons as ethics) in general.

I'd love to see everyone in the world give up eating meat, but I'm not going to push anyone, mind. But it's interesting to speculate and talk about.

Getting the general public to *reduce* consumption would be useful, though, no? We'd need to raise *fewer* animals and perhaps they could be fed and treated better if they weren't seen as a mass-produced commodity?

(That's the bit that hurts my feelings- when sentient, living beings are thought of as "things", and easily disposable ones at that.)

Chickens lay eggs more frequently? What do you mean?

I'm not entirely sure we'd all be healthier, really. Humans evolved as omnivores, and especially children need animal proteins.

But the proportions are way out of whack in the western world. Nobody needs meat at every meal.

Can't a chicken lay eggs with more frequency than say a cow or a pig can gestate and give birth. Meaning the gestational period is shorter.

Humans may have evolved as omnivores because meat was sometimes easier to get than fruits and vegetables, but absolutely do not *require* animal proteins. There's not a single protein or amino acid that can't be gotten via plant foods. For example, my own nutritionist is vegan and it was partly at her advice (and my endocrinologist) that I've given up the last of the animal proteins. I personally know at least three adults who've never consumed animal proteins in their lives. They're perfectly healthy!

But I totally agree that if people want to eat meat, having it with every meal is way overdoing it. And some people have more than one meat at a single meal- stuff like bacon cheeseburgers, chili hot dogs, etc- and often double up on cured meats, which are so unhealthy in the first place!

I ask you about the gestational periods because I know you've lived on farms and have probably witnessed some animals giving birth. I haven't except for on TV programs.

Yes, chickens lay about an egg a day. But if everyone was vegetarian, we wouldn't need the sheep and cows for giving birth to more sheep and cows for eating, just for the milk.

Meaning a lot of rams and bulls would be standing around with nowhere to go.


And having a nutritionst who claims that is all well and good - but your average vegan is someone who's prepared to invest time and effort into deciding what to eat when. Most people aren't. It's that easy. We'd see a lot more malnutrition. I know malnourished vegans, too, and they're more common than perfectly healthy ones. It's not a one-size-fits-all thing.

Maybe it's down to how much people tend to eat- I've never known any malnourished vegans. But it's so true that for some reason, most people just don't care enough to invest the time and effort into thinking about what they eat and when. Even when it makes them fat, or sick, or seriously sick. There are a lot of malnourished omnivores, too- every day I watch people take in garbage food like white bread, "enriched" pasta, fast food, etc, stuff with no nutritional value.

It's kind of sad, really.

And I agree 100% that if everyone were vegetarian, we wouldn't need animals to give birth to more animals for eating, thereby eliminating the need for cruel and unethical faming and slaughter techniques, and reducing the amounts of grains required for animal feed. The 4.8 pounds of grain required to produce a single pound of beef could feed that many more people.

Ah- I see what you mean about bulls and rams with nothing to do and nowhere to go. But once they lived out their natural lives, or once all of the beef cattle had been eaten and the eating of meat phased out, we wouldn't need to *breed* them like we do, right?

I had no idea this conversation would take off like this. I hope it doesn't wind up on the FP.