h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Perhaps we should have a compulsory intelligence test to sit before you can register on the site. Whats with all these fools we allow on who can't even touch type faster than 70 WPM?; They only slow the site down for the rest of us.

"I was naive back then. I hadn't realised the type of person the majority of Telewest -> h2g2 users was, but again, that is another argument altogether. This is not the 'dregs' thread. The point of this thread is not to ban digibox users based on what I or Saturnine think of them, but based on their methods of connection to h2g2."

Majority of Telewest/h2g2 users + digibox = "dregs"

"dregs" - digibox = Saturnine and AKAs Ideal World

The point of this thread is to ban digibox users based on their methods of connection so banning the "dregs" as you see fit to call them which is exactly what you and Saturnine think of them.

Or am I the only person who picked that up in your last paragraph AKA???

MuPPeT MaD

The touch-typing speed doesn't work that way - as I'm sure you know 2legs! If anything, the speedier people are the ones using up the BBC's server bandwidth by being able to post more and often.

There seem to be a couple of issues which may or may not be linked in various people's minds. Leaving that linkage aside for the moment, when/why was it suddenly concluded that accessing h2g2 from TeleWest was illegal? I knew about the firewall which included the BBC as a permitted domain but I wasn't aware the digibox users had always had to send themselves special email links. SSO was the first such problem/solution I saw raised as an issue - which therefore seemed to imply that getting to h2g2 was almost a formality before. Is it genuinely not possible to navigate here from the bits of BBCi that TeleWest does promote as accessible? Does a lack of linkage mean it is not allowed or merely that it was never thought of as a useful thing to provide?

I do agree that the ability to get here does not imply it is intended to be possible though. TeleWest may merely not be very proficient at writing software (including not even predicting that people would access other areas of the BBC site such as dna).

I came upon this thread from the AskH2G2 thread so i assume it's open for all.

Just out of curiosity Saturnine if Telewest reply back to you saying they have no problem with people gaining access to this site through the digibox, what exactly will you do then? Admit defeat?


This thread feels like a kangaroo court with you as Judge, Jury and Executioner. It looks as if you've made up your mind on this matter before Telewest have even replied to you. You're going to look really stupid if they haven't got a problem with digibox users having access to this site aren't you?

I doubt you will even own up in here if they think it's ok!

Diddy! Digibox user at night and Library user in day.

A lot can happen between a post at lunch time and then a check of the thread when home after work!

As I see it:

A lot of digibox users here use Hootoo as a chat room after their free service was discontinued.

Telewest may or may not care that their service is being (if not perverted) *bent*

The spirit of Hootoo may be slightly changed by the nature of digibox users- perhaps good and perhaps bad, only time will tell?

In the mean time, lack of capitals, poor spelling, inane posts, and textmessaging intensely annoy more people than just me.

If Telewest is notified and the software is patched it may not make any difference since there may be other ways around it? Publically funded libraries for one.

Those people who have a problem with digibox users who originally used the digibox themselves did so when they were somewhat younger and a lot more naive by the sound of it.

The duality of Hootoo threatens each side as we become confrontational. I for one just decided some time ago to ignore the threads of the LDers (is that right?) but now find they have chased me down elsewhere. I have frequently been annoyed by unintelligible gibberish in the middle of an otherwise serious conversation. Is there any other way to address that? If so I'm all for it, but in the mean time is this such a bad thing? To ask a company if it is aware of it's software loophole?

Just my humble opinion(s) from the not-so-frozen part of Canada.

I’m an ex-LDer, I access h2g2 via both digibox and pc, whichever way I choose, I’m still the same person.

The small minority of ex-LDers who cause problems would still do so if they were accessing via pc, and there are a small minority of pc users that cause problems too, it’s not exclusive to ex-LDers/digibox users.

Ok, some do find it very difficult to get accustomed to the ways of h2g2. I agree with those that have said to educate (I’d prefer to use the word guide) rather than condemn them.

Habits can be hard to break. It was normal in LD chat rooms for the first communication to be “Hi, asl plz” Until they are politely advised, that’s not the way we do things here, how will they know they’re doing something ‘wrong’ same situation with texttalk, and my pet hate, using all capital letters.

The FoLDers Arms (and ‘ye oLDe tea shoppe’) was set up to guide and help ex-LDers to adjust to h2g2 as well as giving them somewhere to chat.

Maybe what is needed is an h2g2 etiquette page for all newbies, not just digibox users

As for whether or not it is legal to access via digibox link, until Telewest takes action to stop me, I’ll continue, regardless of any condemnation. (It's too technical for me anyway)

Emmily

I think the call for all individuals who access through 'telewest'? or whatever the other variations on it are (this is accessing through TV, Yes?), is ludicrus, a few people accessing via that route have been determined by some of us as being'pains', 'undesirible', etc., The case in Point, Lee/whatever else, is that an individual, for whatever reasons, has broken house rules, been banned/put on premod/whatever, rom one account and then broken house rules by opening and using accounts whilst on this 'ban'. In addition, in some of these accounts he impersinated a poliece person? A medic, etc., that would seem to be the issues. I can't see how some, have then determined that this means we should ban, or prevent all people accessing from a certain piece of technology from teh site.
The matter of weather what the individuals are doing by accessing the site through this technology, is legal or not, shouldn't really be of an issue to us, it is for the individual user and the company involved.
The arguements I've seen that they shouldn't be allowed access because they are breaking the law via their particular route of access, could be advanced to other users, such as myself, who don't own a TV and don't pay a TV licience, yet use the BBC's online pages, and likewise to those accessing the BBC pages/H2G2 from overseas, both of which are, of course, as rediculus as the idea of banning those that access the site through this particulr technology as used by Lee et al and others...

I don't know too much about the telewest/TV access to H2G2, But if someone knows; How easy, or is it possible for someone access the site through these means to set up multiple E-Mail addresses?;

Hi 2legs! have you have any filled rolls lately?

Well on Telewest you are allowed a maximum of three email accounts running at the same time but there is nothing to stop you keep changing those addresses virtually constantly if you wish.

On the aforementioned incident well either the italics are aware of the same address being in use or they will see an activemail (thats telewests email) address.

Going by this persons iliterate language i would have to say he wouldn't have the brains to keep changing the address but nothing surprises me anything on this episode.

Hope that helps you
If you need to know anymore just give me a shout! Not too loud mind!

I was just wondering how easily traced a Digibox/telewest/TV-accessing user would be via their E-mail... Filled rolls?; I was to set off on a quest today for a egg sandwich, or the ellucive egg and tomato sandwich, but instead the plumer bought me a kebab I offered to pay, but as useual, I've only got £20 notes

2legs, why the heck do you think you shouldn't use the BBC pages because you don't use the site? That's such weird thinking. If you don't pay the license fee you aren't allowed to watch TV (or listen to the radio, I think). It's got nothing to do with the online pages, which come as a worldwide service to all.

I'm not sure why people can't read what myself and aka have been saying, but let's just recap.

It's not about banning people from the site. It's not about banning a particular group of people from the site (I would like to see a certain type of behaviour exhibited by individuals not on this site, but that's not down to me, that's down to the mods).

It is about LEGALITIES and the way this site functions.

You cannot track a Telewest user down via ISP. They do not have them. Therefore, if they keep breaking the rules, keep getting banned via email address, they can keep coming back. If someone was soliciting children (this is an extreme case) they could keep coming back and doing it.

The access is illegal. And no one, I am sure, condones illegal activity. It also does not benefit the site, because it slows everything down.

It is as simple as that. It's unregulated and illegal. The recent activity that I have seen have pushed me *personally* to wanting to do something about it, as it seems that the h2g2 staff can only do so much. I want a certain section of this site sorted out, and I am doing something about it.

I'm not trying to stop people using the site, and this is not my personal opinion about a certain section of people. However, I am entitled to my personal opinion, as so far, it's not been proved otherwise.

Here is a link to one of the many reasons why I am doing this - F81706?thread=367232

When people start leaving a site, it's time to do something about a problem.

Nice? Are you sure? You must be coming across a rare breed. I was one of them, I know these things.

satunine your words.... if I recall the houserules no flaming or trolling:

"Please, no flaming or trolling. Flaming means posting something that's angry and mean-spirited - the online equivalent of flying off the handle"


I'll go beat some of them up. It could be fun. Moron hunting.
your words again

So what youre saying/suggesting is because of a small number "digibox" users cause trouble or can't spell correctly they should be stopped from using this site ?? why dont you suggest this to jim and natalie if it bothers you that much, i for one resent the fact that certain pc users feel that digibox users dont make a valuable contribution to this site. I feel the site would be a lot poorer for it.

*un-lurks*
Just a technical point: "You cannot track a Telewest user down via ISP. They do not have them."

This statement is incorrect. Any access to one part of the Internet will be from some other part of the Internet - until you get to the user's computer of course. The set-top boxes will be connected to a server in much the same way a normal dial-up connection is, and that server will be assigned one or more IP addresses to identify itself to the rest of the Internet. There may or may not be one for each user - if not, you can't distinguish between one user, and two users who happen to have had the same address at different times, because they both use the same access point. But this is equally true of services like Freeserve, which have a relatively small block of IP addresses they reassign as needed, and hope not too many people log on at once.

In other words, your claim that digibox users are any more anonymous than others in this respect is founded on a false premise.

[IMSoP]
*re-lurks*

""dregs" - digibox = Saturnine and AKAs Ideal World"

There's the point, and - oh! You /just/ missed it.
Whether that's mine and/or Saturnine's ideal world, that doesn't matter. Telewest Digibox users are abusing the system, and until Telewest provide an open access link from their system into h2g2, and other currently unadvertised, yet, available, sites; You are still abusing the system.

"The point of this thread is to ban digibox users based on their methods of connection so banning the "dregs" as you see fit to call them which is exactly what you and Saturnine think of them."

Almost, but not quite, entirely missing the point.
The point of this thread can only be determined by the one person who created it. It is a journal entry in Saturnine's Journal, so um. That means.. Wait. That means only Saturnine can declare the point of this thread! Oops. You lose.

And beside the opinions of whoever has them, of any certain group that happens to use the digibox method of getting to h2g2, such a method is as I've said, and that is beginning to feel clichéd, illegal. It is a system hack, and is no better than making use of that time the systems which decided that a phone call should be XP/minute at the Mobile Phone company One2One, seemed to stop working, and give out free calls to all numbers to all of its customers (unintentionally). And some LD users will still remember that.

"Is it genuinely not possible to navigate here from the bits of BBCi that TeleWest does promote as accessible?"

The Telewest Digibox system is very basic. It has a small banner advert at the top of it's limited makeshift "browser", which can be activated by pressing the 'blue' button. BBCi advertise themselves on that bannerspace sometimes at random, and when in a BBC Digibox-site, they advertise digibox-safe sites in that bannerspace. Now h2g2 causes so much problems to these users, it cannot be considered digibox-safe. There are no other links placed by Telewest saying 'This is a link to h2g2 - Come on in!' **ANYWHERE** on its Interactive menu.

The only way in to any page that Telewest do not place a link to, is by typing in the HTML Code for a link, much like GUIDEML, in a form, and then seeing the results of that form. This can be in the form of using a Yellow Pages Search Engine, which I believe is on the Telewest system, and clicking the link: "You searched for: 'I am a link'" (where 'I am a link' is the hyperlinked text) -- Or alternatively, via sending yourself, or others, an e-mail with a link in it.

"what exactly will you do then? Admit defeat?"

Defeat? The only conflict here is between the bunch of people who think that this is a reiteration of the anti-Dregs society. There will be valued faces that use h2g2 through a Telewest digibox, but those who love h2g2 will find an Internet café or library via which to access h2g2 at a minimal (from nil upwards) cost. This isn't a war, we just feel Telewest needs to know about the system being abused, and if they do know, and want to stop it, it is very easy to do so.

"If Telewest is notified and the software is patched it may not make any difference since there may be other ways around it?"

There won't be any way around it from that system, cl. Trust me. I've had a box for around 5 years. Once they put a block from the proxy server side, there's no getting around it.

"Those people who have a problem with digibox users who originally used the digibox themselves did so when they were somewhat younger and a lot more naive by the sound of it."

Quite right.

"I access h2g2 via both digibox and pc"

One question: Why? There must be something surrounding your use of the PC - ie: You can't get to it all the time, otherwise you wouldn't use the Telewest digibox to access h2g2. I know, I've already said I've had one since near enough the start.

"The small minority of ex-LDers who cause problems would still do so if they were accessing via pc"

Yes, but once they realise the enoromity of the 'Web, they'll decide to run off to some other site, or in time adapt to the h2g2 way of life, with no excuse to type in the way some of them do. I've seen the former happen so many times with new PC, ex-Telewest users before. I believe h2g2 is the only free replacement for a community site that Telewest users are able to access, so once they get a PC and realise how many more communities are out there, they'll probably decide to run off to some chatsite.

No, Giant Hogweed, everyone is free to use the site. Legally, that is. And that is the issue.

Point of clarification about the TV Licence:

the TV licence is *only* required to watch broadcast television. It does not apply to any non-TV BBC services- eg the website, or the radio, and is not required if the TV is not tuned in to any channels, or connected to an ariel. So if someone does not have a licence can own a TV to watch videos or DVDs, or to play games consoles, but not to pick up any terrestrial, satelite, cable, digital or other television broadcasts.

having read the thread in question (F81706?thread=367232) its only goes to show that, this is NOTHING to do with how digibox users get to h2g2, but again it's about digibox users using the site..... maybe you should post the thread link in the other thread, I'm sorry but, I wont deal with terminological inexactitudes and that, is what your argument now appears from the beginning in the other thread..........shame

Increase,
That's true what you have said for PC users, but keep in mind, this is not the (mildly superior piece of kit provided by Nokia I believe) Sky Digibox, which plugs into the user's phone landline and dials up the Internet by BT's ISP.

The way it works is this: It has one cable that plugs into one socket in the back of the digibox. Down this cable, lots of fast information can be sent, including TV pictures and sound, and also digital HTML pages. In fact, if I were to take my PC downstairs and plug my Cable Modem, provided by the same company (Blueyonder, the OFFICIAL ISP sector of Telewest), and thus the same network of cables, into that cable, I could probably, after twiddling with MAC addresses etc, get online via it.

I believe Blueyonder sets aside a few IPs for its Telewest digibox users, as when my Broadband Internet connection dies, so does access to the Interactive services on the digibox.

What you've said is correct for a PC or Mac user, but the TW digibox is vastly different. I, falling into both categories: Computer user, and a Telewest Digital TV subscriber, can reliably comment on this.