h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This post has been removed.

I'm hoping the people who came from the other thread wanting replies come here...
Anyway:

"if you could get your head out of your pompous backside for one minute and tell me EXACTLY how much digi box users are costing Telewest then i might listen."

How sweetly put, Creachy.

An IT lesson. Imagine if you would, a box. A box full of little 1s and 0s. And it is to the population of the UK, the owner of this box has decided to share those 1s and 0s. A lot of the people the owner of the box shares those 1s and 0s with have drilled a hole in the back, and now they get more 1s and 0s than anybody else, and more than the owner intended to share. This makes everybody else have less 1s and 0s. This is the very basic concept of bandwidth. The more you have, the faster you are able to get at something, which goes some way to explain why h2g2 has been slowing down a lot, but BBCi isn't the issue here.

By using up bandwidth that Telewest did not intend for use on the Internet; Ie: outside of the 'garden' of pages Telewest sets aside, you are in effect, causing a slow down and in some cases a lock up of Telewest's machines. Telewest do not provide the amount of bandwidth to it's Interactive Digital TV customers so it can be used on any of over 3 billion heavy pages - they only intend for some News, Information, Shopping and E-mail pages to be viewed. By grabbing more bandwidth for yourselves, you're depriving other Telewest STBs of the reliability of the service.

"ALL BBC products are freeview/listen due to licensing. and if Telewest have enough connections/bandwidth to access BBCi sites then why shouldn't people use it."

Telewest is not free. And even when a customer pays for the Digital TV package, the price does not cover the illegal use of the system.

Also, the TV licence fee does not pay for my Internet access, why should it cover anybody elses? BBCi is provided free once you pay an ISP to provide you the content (via setting a connection up for you). I don't see anybody paying Telewest any fees to access h2g2 via what is essentially a hack of the system. Telewest do NOT offer a Web TV service. They offer limited Interactive TV services including News, Shopping and E-mail. Other TV companies once offered extra Internet access, however Telewest do not. If they did, this would be fine -- if they have the bandwidth to allow STB users to access BBCi sites then why not? Creachy would be right in /that/ case. But this is not the situation.

"oh, and not once did i say you'd be 'grassing them up' so please don't quote me as doing so."
I didn't quote you.
What I did just above this response is quoting you.
Examples:
"There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who do not." - Quote.

Telewest offer Interactive services such as News, E-mail and 'Red button' access - Not a quote.

If anybody wants to take a contrary position in this 'debate', please have the decency to be intelligent.

just a question, what happens to the digibox users who are a credit to the site, and if those people can't splash out for a pc, I only got my pc by luck.

.......oh and Telewest advertise access to BBCi, DNA comes under BBCi, thus it becomes a bit of a 'grey' area..... I know you will argue point of access......

ok, you've got my attention, but you may regret it.

before you start insulting my intelligence perhaps you could clear up the grammar in your first paragraph very hard to read and understand you see.

so, how much does this illegal use of Bandwidth actually cost? you stil haven't answered.

and Sat, you respect an illegal opportunity? so if a safe door was open you'd only take one bundle of cash?

ethics and morals are not up for debate here anyway. Sat used Telewest to get here in the first place and now she doesn't need it she wants to prevent others from using it. she claims to be a great contributer to this site which is great, well done, but what if others who come here via Digi also become great contributors?

her grounds for such actions are that she believes most users from Digi Box cause nothing but trouble. well here i am causing you trouble, so why not get PC users banned?

i speak to many Digi box users and have never had a problem with them. the problems start when single minded, spiteful beings such as yourselves decide to act in such a way.

so as i said, go on then Sat, report it. i think you'll find them very uninterested

thankyou Jonathan

if Telewest do advertise access to BBCi then what exactly are you going to complain about Sat and aka?

seeing as H2G2 IS part of BBCi then nothing has been stolen or abused

I see no problem. If they are aware it is possible and haven't pasted a software patch to stop it, they are allowing it. I have had my problem with LDers in the past but only a few and not much of a problem. I find it annoying that they use the digibox as an excuse for poor syntax, spelling, and lack of capitals when others manage just fine, thank you very much. But that isn't a reason to ban them, just to try to educate, wouldn't you say?

aka - i have just been informed, and i pertly remember this anyway, but aren't you the one who originally forwarded the link enabling Digi Box users to access BBCi?

I thought DNA wanted h2g2 available to anybody and everybody......

I dont think your actions *show* much of his spirit, hopes or wishes

another excellent point Jonathan, well done that man

shall we take their silence as an admission of defeat

*awaits the ensuing posts*

Silence = defeat?

In which world?

I would have thought that of Telewest had a problem with folk using their digiboxes to access the BBCi's sites, then they would have closed any loopholes by now. I mean it must be a couple of years since the first of box users appeared here on site. Surely they would have noticed by now.

Jonathan said : " I thought DNA wanted h2g2 available to anybody and everybody......

I dont think your actions *show* much of his spirit, hopes or wishes"

And I say : Who's talking about stopping people from using the site?

I don't think DNA meant "stealing from other people" in it being available to everyone. I think he meant, within the confines of the internet (not abusing bandwidth), and contributing constructively (writing legible interesting articles, not just using this place for a chatsite and blatently disregarding rules or other researchers).

I am *so* fine with everyone using this site. I just want less of this weekends bother, less aggravation, less of a company being abused.

we all want less of this weekends bother.

but Jonathan also said that Telewest advertise access to BBCi. which entails DNA which H2G2 is a part of.

so what you gonna do? write to Telewest and tell them to withdraw that offer? or continue putting all Digi Box users into one category?

it may have been illegal when you used Digi Box to access here, but it appears it isn't now. that would make you worse than the current Digi Box users

your choice and i have a feeling neither would be beneficial or productive.

So your point seems to be that because this Lee/Liam/yadda yadda yadda character was a digibox user, that you should bubble *all* digibox users and get rid of them from the site. Well that doesn't seem particularly fair. I've come across plenty of a*seholes here who are PC users.

you should also note GreyDesk that Saturnine first came to this site through the "illegal" use of a Digi Box

"pulls soapbox from corner"

I'd just like to add a couple of little comments here if I may:

1. Saturnine, you had a "beef" with ex LDers before and used the digibox argument then......who are you targetting now??

2. Those who use digiboxes will know that the access to h2g2 is via an email link which comes under interactive services which are FREE....so I don't see how anybody is cheating telewest

3. If people only access the site via pc through the local library does that make them any less welcome as they are not paying internet charges nor the price of a pc

4. AKA you're very quiete since it was pointed out that you actually claim to have started this link business in a conversation many many months ago..

awaits comments with great interest.....

MuPPeT MaD

Oh I know she did. And she was the first to demonstrate that a digibox user could do proper sentences with all the trimmings, if they really wanted to. I know most folk were amazed that she was using a digibox, we all assumed she was a PC user.

Now that hits to the heart of one of the issues that divides the community - "Digibox users aren't stupid, they just sound that way due to sloppy typing."

Saturnine wrote:
I don't think DNA meant "stealing from other people"(1) in it being available to everyone. I think he meant, within the confines of the internet (not abusing bandwidth), and contributing constructively (writing legible interesting articles(2), not just using this place for a chatsite (3)and blatently disregarding rules or other researchers(4)).


(1) When did anyone prove telewest have suffered loss and, they know about h2g2 and the way digibox users get here?

(2) It is not a condition of belonging to h2g2 that you have to write articles.

(3)My view on this one.... if they dont 'chat' to you, why should it bother you.....live and let live maybe

(4) I agree with you, but are you saying *only* digibox users do this?

but I fear it for me, thank you for the 'conversation' and I look forward to your reply

nite all

Jonathan

I seem to remember Telewest only advertising their limited BBCi interactive sites on their limited interactive service...not the same as what is available online, and certainly doesn't include the DNA hub.

GreyDesk - the recent Lee/Liam/Junior thing has really pushed me over the edge...it's something that has been in the back of my head for a while, and I just needed one more reason to bring it up.

Like I said though, it's up to Telewest to decide (and I'm sure no one would be worried about them knowing, unless they themselves believe it's wrong). I'm not sure why everyone is getting so aggravated. I'm not saying that certain *types* of people should be banned from the site - that is what the House Rules and the Mods are there for. But to me, it seems like 99% of the problems I have come across in the last year or so have been based around those that access this site from an illegal connection. It might not be like that for you. It won't get rid of the fact that idiots use this site, and will always use this site, but I reckon that cutting of the TW access would dramatically reduce the problems.

"just a question, what happens to the digibox users who are a credit to the site, and if those people can't splash out for a pc, I only got my pc by luck."

Those who have managed to get to h2g2 via the Set Top Box have been lucky - they've found a real gem. If illegal access is cut off, then they will have to survive on libraries, Internet cafés and other points of access. It may not be a perfect solution, but life's a bch.

"oh and Telewest advertise access to BBCi, DNA comes under BBCi, thus it becomes a bit of a 'grey' area..... I know you will argue point of access"

Telewest advertise the digibox version of BBCi. If you take a look at some of the special digibox versions around the BBC Website you will notice how they say they're working to bring the same quality of content (News, Weather, Sport, What's On Guides, Etc) to Set Top Box users. This smaller version of some BBCi Subsites do not fall into the global category of BBCi. Even if the larger BBCi sites were intended available for Telewest users, the access method is still illegal. You seem to know what my argument is. Thank you for using your brain -- You're right, I have argued point of access. Do you not agree then, that accessing external(as in outside of Telewest's Interactive 'garden') sites is wrong?

"before you start insulting my intelligence perhaps you could clear up the grammar in your first paragraph"

I detect pedantry. If it's "1s" and "0s" you 'don't understand', replace them with "ones" and "zeroes".

"how much does this illegal use of Bandwidth actually cost?"
I do not work for Telewest, so I cannot say how much bandwidth is used up, or can I account for losses incurred. However I use my technical knowledge to determine, as someone who has used the Telewest Set Top Box technology for years, that access to such a site as this on such a scale, by as many people, such a system cannot survive well. Especially when you take into account how long the Goo skin takes to load compeltely on the Telewest digibox. The amount of bandwidth per set top must be much less than per computer, allocated to Blueyonder customers. The News and other Interactive sections are only supposed to be used infrequently, and not for long - when you're logged into h2g2, as addictive as it is, for prolonged periods of time, you're really going to affect the back end of the system.

And besides how much it costs Telewest, isn't it enough to know it's illegal?

"well here i am causing you trouble, so why not get PC users banned?"

You've missed the point entirely.

"if Telewest do advertise access to BBCi then what exactly are you going to complain about Sat and aka?"

See above. They do not advertise access to the global variety BBCi have to offer. They advertise snippets of the larger site in a toned down format, accessible via a link that Telewest put there themselves. If they wanted you to access the Internet or other branches of BBCi, they would've given you an Address Bar, don't you think?

"seeing as H2G2 IS part of BBCi then nothing has been stolen or abused"

Wrong. H2G2 does not come packaged as part of the digibox version of BBCi. If it did, you would be right, but as it is reserved for hackless, normal computers to access, (hence why a lot of its features do not work - namely the javascript functions like the Who's Online button) you are wrong.

"If they are aware it is possible and haven't pasted a software patch to stop it, they are allowing it."

Perhaps they aren't quite aware that the problem still persists? Telewest have a reputation for not exactly being smart, and going for the 'This isn't a permanent fix, but it'll work for now' option. As I said before, if Telewest did want its users to access external sites, they would've made it perfectly clear. The fact that they haven't yet updated their software does not mean they are allowing it to continue.

"But that isn't a reason to ban them, just to try to educate, wouldn't you say?"

Myself and Saturnine have been locked in a heavy thread with a bunch of Telewest users before, and all attempts to educate them have resulted in responses such as:
"LOL WOT U BABBBLIN ON BOUT THEN?????! LMAOO"
Et al.

"aka - i have just been informed, and i pertly remember this anyway, but aren't you the one who originally forwarded the link enabling Digi Box users to access BBCi?"

I discovered the link for myself, and interested, I took part in h2g2, creating Articles, contributing to <./>ThePost</.>, and other constructive activities. As Saturnine has already pointed out, the majority of Telewest users just want to use h2g2 as an extension of LD, since its demise, and the replacement of a pay-per-play replacement. Most of them are here because they have no chatroom, and this place is free of charge. I hated using h2g2 through the TV because it screwed up the Goo skin, and conversations were buggy - I would use computers at school, the library, etc, to use h2g2 in the manner it was intended.

Eventually when I did get a PC, all illegal access was immediately stopped (and I was glad to) - And at the time I was using h2g2 through the Set Top Box, I can hardly say the 'magic e-mail' was that well known.

I did use the link myself for a short while, but I cannot be responsible for the forwarding on of such a link. Perhaps the link which you may have received did not in fact come from me at all. I daresay I'm the only person in the world who ever had a Telewest Set Top and HTML knowledge. It's hardly C++ -- It's mostly the same as GuideML.

If there are any more people still raging on this topic, you might like to visit A2257319 -- It should answer all questions from What Telewest is (for the computer users who are interested) to Why the 'magic e-mail' is a violation of your contract with Telewest.