h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Am in the middle of the school selection process for t'Boy (and t'Other, by extension) and it is doing my head in. Choices are:
1) Catchment school - great space, can walk there, secular, new head who sounds really on the ball and is pulling the place out of special measures well. Recent inspection criticised them for not stretching bright kids - this is my main worry as t'Boy is now doing well with reading (at 3.5 years this is pretty amazing), can count to 100 and do simple addition and subtraction. He is trying to teach himself guitar and piano. If he gets bored he makes trouble and I don't want school to be that way for him. I could stay part time and just do school hours if they were here, and do stuff after school with them that isn't supplied by after school clubs. If we wanted to apply to grammar school next we'd have to coch them ourselves or pay for a tutor.

2) Private mixed nearby - utterly amazing. Smaller classes, great facilities, lovely atmosphere, good contacts, excellent chance of getting them into a good state secondary school next. 200k to get 2 boys to the start of secondary school, 400k to get them to a-level if we didn't get them into a preferred secondary. If we never buy anything new again and I go back full time once they are both there we could (just) do this. But I would have less time to spend with them, although more would be done by the school. Is religious, so they have to go to a service once a week, and have RE lessons. They don't learn about world religions in these classes, these are covered in PSE. The learning atmosphere was fabulous, they really applaud nd value achievement so nobody is bullied for being a 'swot'. The sports hall, swimming pool, grounds and other sporting facilities were out of this world. No spaces for next september, would have to start at state school (or other private) and swtich in year 2 or 3.

3) State out of catchment church school in the village. On paper a better school than 1). Nice atmosphere, not TOO churchy, good space, nice classrooms. Further than 1) to walk to but easily within bike distance. Doesn't have the same issue as 1) but we probably won't get in as we are the 7th level of familes who get a place - children from *much* further away whose parents go to church (or have faked it for the last year - I know two of these but I'm just not that much of a hypocrite) would get places above us even though the catchment area ends at the end of our road.

4) Private single-sex. Cheaper than 2) but not looked round yet. Amazing reports from the other parents I know who have looked (we're going i a couple of weeks) and I know some of the staff who've told me all about the facilities but as I've got two boys I want them to learn to get on with girls so single-sex is a big minus. Secular, a big plus.

5) State, lovely little school in distant village. Reasonable chance of getting in, but a massive pain to get to, only doable in a car and through horrible traffic.

Am tying myself in knots - I wish the private ones were totally out of my reach in a lot of ways! Not sure I know how to make this decision.

Don't envy you this one, but if there had been any chance I could get my son into a private school I would have done it. It taught me so much more than just the education, but I appreciate you'd have to give up time with them and it does sound like an awful lot of money when you add it all up like that! I would have chosen a single sex school over mixed, but if they are anything like the school I went to you miss out on traditional 'other sex' courses - like my all girls school didn't do metal or woodwork.

I prefer the most local schools so the kids can learn road sense by walking home, but if your local has been in special measures I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Am sure all that is a great help.

Good luck!

Local school used to be a great above-nationl-average school, then got a duff head who seemingly destroyed it for four years, hence the specil measures, then they had temp head to get it out of special measures for a year and now has a new permanent head who does seem good.

Arrgh.

Did any of the teachers leave? Sometimes the good teachers leave when that happens, and if they have been replaced with some, er, not so good then the Head will have a harder time getting standards up and keeping them up.

A (secondary) school near me went into special measures, although it came out after a couple of years it is now closing anyway and becoming part of another school, I think for the less academic children.

That's a really tough choice. If you were offered places from all of them, which would hurt you the most to turn down?

Kelli, how soon do you have to decide? There are so few private schools in my part of the world, that this isn't a choice most parents have to make. The vast majority of kids just automatically attend local, tax-supported schools.

Good luck with it.

If you want my opinion, which I guess you do as you posted it on h2g2, but maybe you don't.. anyway.

It seems that if things could work out at the local school then that would be the best thing. It would be the most convenient wouldn't it? So why not give it a go and see how things go, if there's problems then they could always go to one of the other schools.

The other advantage to being at a local school is that they would be nearer their school friends, so they could socialise more easily when the get a bit older and they wouldn't feel left out in the village.

The forms have to be in by mid-Jan so everyone is doing the open days now.

That is the biggest plus to going to a local school Z, we are friends with a family who live on the same road as us (a bit closer to school 3 by a few tens of metres, which may be significant) and have child 1 same age as t'Boy and child 2 same age as t'Other. If they went to the same school it would make life *much* easier as we could share drop offs and pick ups and cover each other for work or when taking some but not all of the children to after school activities. They are putting school 3 as 1st choice and school 1 as second choice.

Having your mates nearby would be great so either of the village state schools would work from that perspective but we can't get away from the fact that we are only in the catchment for one of them - the catchments have been *very* carefully drawn so that the 'posh' end of the village is included in school 3, and the considerably less posh bits in school 1. Last year a kid from No.37 got a place (same level of priority as us) and we are No.42 so there is a good chance we would, but there are lots of kids in t'Boy's year in the village so more kids = less chance we'll get in. I doubt we'd be able to move into this school later, if he doesn't get on in school 1.

What I can't decide is if the potential gains for the boys through going to private school are worth the losses. School 1 isn't a sink school by any stretch of the imagination and really is coming back to its previous level. The head is switched on and is trying to target the thing that worried me most from the OFSTED report. I'm an engaged and involved parent and will be around to put in the work anywhere the school is lacking - the only thing I can't do is stretch him in the classrom and ensure that he doesn't become disengaged with education out of boredom or peer pressure. 200k is such a lot of money, with that we could pay their tuition fees at uni and provide the deposit for their first flat, except we wouldn't have it becuase I'd be part time still and earning less, and we wouldn't have to miss holidays for the next 8 years.

Our real options are:
put down school 3 as first preference and if we get in then great.
If don't get into school 3 then we'll end up at school 1.

Can then try school 1 for 1-2 years and if it is ok then stay put, if not then switch to school 2 (private) when a place comes up.

If we get allocated a place at school 1 we could choose instead to go to the private school 4.

I need a working crystal ball so I can examine the outcomes from these different options!

One more thing to consider about switching to a private school is that although I was older I went from being in the top group of everything at the comp to the bottom group of everything (except English) and was doing so badly at French they wouldn't let me sit the Olevel and put me in French Studies CSE instead.

Although your boys will be younger, just wanted to bring that up. It is a considerable kick in the teeth, and frankly shows why I would have done anything to get Teenacher into private - the level of education is so much better. I doubt very much he'd be in a special school now if I had managed it.

They are so very much younger that I don't think this will matter too much but it is something I'd thought about. The school has an influx into year 3 (middle school) as a few of the state primaries around here are first school only. This concerns me a bit about transferring into private secondary if we end up with a rubbish or even no secondary school.

Secondary is a consideration as the council keeps changing the rules on the catchments for these. My village is where a little bit of Berks bulges up to Bucks. Lots of parents apply to the grammar schools in bucks (which are actually really close by) but they only take the very brightest from Berks so fairly unlikely to get in. Our nearest secondary comp in Berks is the best one in the area but last year they changed the rules so that eseentially only distance from the school matters, there were no catchment areas - and although this is our nearest secondary the entire town is closer than our village and 25 kids in the village didn't get a secondary place at all, or were allocated to a school 8 miles the other side of town that basically serves a large a traveller community there and not many other kids. The boys will be going there over my dead body - so if they have to be bottom of the class in a private school at this point, so be it. This year they allowed village schools to be priority feeders into the nearest comp to avoid this problem but this has caused problems for other areas and is by no means a fixed thing so we might need to bear in mind that whether we go to a village school or a private one.

This whole thing is a bloody nightmare. I want my local catchment school to be great, and not to have to worry about all this but the head of one of the schools was very honest with me when she said she could see all the Tory cuts coming down the line which would mean fewer teaching assistants so less support for those kids at either end of the ability spectrum. *sigh*

Oh, and about your pint re the teachers leaving - the head there said she liked the fact that she can pick and choose her staff when people apply because it is a nice village and people want to work here. Think this is a good sign.

Kelli, where do you think the boys would be happiest? I ask because I know from experience how difficult it is for the child and parents both when a kid hates their school. If there is an enormous difference in quality like happened with Mina, then you need to give them the opportunity of the better education if you can. If the difference is smaller, then things like convenience for you and satisfaction for the boys should come into play.

I don't know. Need that crystal ball again!

I think they could be happy at any of them, but my fear is that if he isn't stretched t'Boy will entertain himself, get into trouble then become 'the naughty boy' of the class. That definitely won't happen in the private school, it could happen in either state school but only one of them has had this problem highlighted recently. It might be that *because* they were pulled up about it school 1 will actually be better in this regard than school 3.

It feels like such a big decision that will set his feet (and his brother's) on a path for life. *Arrgh*

I went to both private and state schools, switched from private to state at 12, and I really didn't notice much of a difference. I did very well academically in a state school.

I don't think that this is the decision that will set them up for life, because you can always change schools at a later date. I would try and get as much free education as possible, and then concentrate on changing them if you need to! Spending 200k because he *might* be bored seems like an awful lot of money. If you know that he is bored and you have tried everything with the school, then it is worth the money.

Mina had a bad experience changing to private schools later, but that was much later. If you are bottom of the class in a private school at 7, or even 11 then there's plenty of time to catch up.

You haven't factored in that if they go to state school they will have more of *you*, more of your time, and parents that aren't constantely worried about money.

That definitely is a big factor! The fact that the private school we like best has no spaces this year is actually really helpful because if we want them to go there we will *have* to try out the state options first.

If money were no object then we'd almost certainly choose the private one because the facilities were vastly superior and for a very physical boy who likes his swimming and sports it would be a great choice - every class swims once a week from the start of school, in the state one they are bused to swimming lessons for two terms in year 4, so we'd have to do his swimming ourselves. There is no rugby at school 1 so we would ahve to keep taking him to rugby club out of school. They can't have the same amount of music lessons in the state school as they get in the private one and as t'Boy is trying to play guitar and piano we'll have to supply these ourselves when we think he is ready to actually sit for a whole lesson and do the practising. I think all the things around the core education we can provide ourselves, it is just extra work and I don't want to think about hwat happens when the boys develop different interests and the clubs are in different places at the same time. I am sure I can find a way though.

And money *is* a factor - like i said, if they were totally out of our reach we wouldn't be concerned about the private schools at all and this would feel a bit less stressful - we'd put down school 3 as 1st choice and not be too distraught if we ended up at school 1.

Z, I thought you changed from homeschooling to state?

I know it isn't a total and final decision (we can always up sticks and move if we have to) but it *feels* like it is. Arrgh.

Have you tried writing each school down on a scrap of paper and pulling them out of a hat? Keep doing it until you sigh with relief instead of annoyance. Then at least you will know what your gut feeling is so you can factor that into the decision.

If you choose what's best for the boys alone, but makes you miserable, that won't be any good for them either.

The fact is, if you go for the most expensive school, the boys get less of your time, of J's time (I assume he spent so much time in Brussels for monetary as well as career reasons), and that's more a worry re becoming a "naughty boy" than him needing a little more stimulation.

There are also classes for kids T'Boy's age and up online, that cater to advanced kids, and would stretch both boys, staving off boredom. The bonus being, that they won't entail you having to give up holidays, working like slaves and taking your time from the boys.

My , from a formerly very bored primary school kid. I escaped by hanging out in the library and reading everything I could get me hands on, though.

I worked in the state system to pay the fees to send my daughters to a small private prep school. And then I worked in a private secondary to get discounted places. Finally when I really couldn't afford private any more I transferred them to state grammar for the last few years (no favouritism, they had already passed the selection tests in Year 6).
So, how about getting a job in the private school, if you really want them to go?
Or you could always set up your own! http://newschoolsnetwork.org/

I wouldn't put too much credence into the OFSTED inspection report. These days they seem to be based very little on what goes on in the classroom, and more on budget management and ability to do pointless paperwork. If you want to stretch the fella and you don't think school will do it, sign him up for music lessons, Cubs and whatever else you can think of. You can gauge his ability as well as any teacher - so do all the stretching out of school.

B

I've thought about working in private schools to get discounts - I don't currently have a PGCE and am currently working part time so that I get to spend time with the boys - to get a PGCE I would have to do longer-than-part-time hours which I'm not prepared to do while they are still so small! So, couldn't start it before the youngest starts school, and then they don't give the discount until you have been working there a couple of years so eldest would be moving on to secondary by the time I start to get a discount. They can't stay on past primary at my preferred (mixed) primary so would have to move to the single sex one at 11 years. I could try to get a pgce while they are at primary school then work in the secondary for a couple of years before eldest is due there, but that doesn't really solve the dilemma for primary school.

It worries me that teachers don't want their children educated in the sorts of schools they teach in!

>>"It worries me that teachers don't want their children educated in the sorts of schools they teach in!"

I paid more for the smaller class sizes than anything else. My daughters could read and write well before they started school. That's much too important to trust to anyone else. I'm happy with the choices I made for their education, but what suited my family might not suit any one elses.

Don't assume that a PGCE will exist in a few years time. At least not as many courses as there are now. Places for employment based training (eg GTP) may well expand though. Nothing is certain at the moment.