h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

probably some preaching in there but i don't mind.

i like your view of God as existing even if you stop believing in him. that's you having faith and that's a good thing. your relationship with God seems like a personal and strong one, not like a superficial 'if i pray he'll like me' one. that's a good kind of faith.

"Yeah, but God inspired man to write the Bible, so it's God's word given to us through the medium of a book."

disregarding the word medium for a second, yes it is God's will, but also there is a lot of stuff that was written by man that wasn't quoting God or doing it because he told them too. i think the bible is rather suspect but again this isn't God's fault, it's ours.

"because I believe he's wrong and I don't want him to spend his life believing a lie, and only find out that he's wrong when he's too late."

as to that, it's not too bad if you want to help him, but if you'd condemned him for being a Muslin as some people do then that's bad. i don't really know what to say to that comment. i suppose it's good that you want to help people but it's the sort of view that makes people convert other people to their point of view and i'm very wary of people trying to preach to me. sorry if that's offending to you, i just get a little edgy when people start going on about 'saving' people.

"But Christianity says: No-one is able to earn their way into heaven, so God, because he loves us, sent his son to take our punishment instead of us. So now, if we accept what he's done for us, we don't have to take that punishment any more! We can go to heaven and be with God forever!"

you make it sound like we are unable to earn out way to heaven because of some sort of design flaw that we can't get around. if God created man in his image then why would he create us so that we're not good enough to get into heaven? also you make it seem like it was necessary for us to be punished in order to get to heaven. this seems odd because it's like it was God's will that man wouldn't be able to get to heaven without punishment. dunno really, just seems strange.

i know the thunderclaps are all hollywood and that if God wanted to talk to me then he wouldn't do it like that, and there have been times when i've felt something, i just wasn't sure if it was God, and to tell the truth i think i didn't want it to be him. i think i'm afraid of the Church somehow. i don't know how or why, maybe i'm afraid of comitting myself, because there are so many paths and possible futures that if i choose one the others all vanish and can never be.

about the angel thing, i was surfing the web looking at sites for Wiccan and witchcraft because at that time there was a girl i liked who was into all that stuff, and before you say anything i don't like her anymore and i'm not a wiccan so don't start going on about hethens and witches and stuff because i've had that discussion with christians before.
anyway, there was this thing on a website that was spiritual but not specific to any religion or following, and it said how to contact my guardian angel. basically you relax yourself a lot and free your mind and then call out with your soul to your angel and ask to feel them. i did it a few times and it felt really good, like a sudden rush of happiness and love and warmth. after contacting your angel you silently thank them for their contact and for watching over you and then you open your eyes and stop. it's a bit more complicated than that but that's the gist of it. it feels nice but i haven't done it in a while.

the thing is, if i was contacting something then whatever or whoever it was it was personal to me. if someone else did that then they would contact someone else, their own angel. it's not contacting God, it's more private and special. it's hard to explain really, but that's what i meant when i said about angels before.

"God wanted a relationship with man, but sin got in the way"

is this the sin of Adam and Eve? i don't like that story but i can't put why into words right now.

i think the problem with religion is that it's too superficial, if that's the right word. it's not natural enough for me, that's why i turned briefly to earth religions like paganism and wicca, but i never really got into any of those so at the moment i'm not really interested in any religion. i like meditation, although i don't think i can do it very well, and other spiritual stuff like that, like training my mind and psychic development and stuff. it's not linked to any religion but i like it because it's something more that the physical world and also it's weird.

and now i too must appologise for the length of this posting and for any offence it may have caused.

I think I was more guilty of that than you actually, so that's OK! It's great to be able to talk with you about this kinda stuff cos usually people just switch off and don't want to know.

Have to disagree with you about the Bible; I really believe that everything in there is there because God wanted it to be. Whatever people wrote for whatever reasons, it was part of God's plan to have it there.

Sorry about the preachiness to our hypothetical Muslim. I don't condemn him for being a Muslim; he's trying to find God, which is great, but he's doing it the wrong way and I don't want him to be misled. I can completely understand why you don't like people trying to 'save' you, I know I wouldn't like it if someone tried to beat me over the head with their beliefs and completely disregard mine. If I ever do that, sorry!

"if God created man in his image then why would he create us so that we're not good enough to get into heaven?"

Hmm, good question. I think it's probably got something to do with the fact that God doesn't want us to be robots. You know, we have to have the choice to love him, otherwise it doesn't mean anything. If you get what I mean? That wasn't explained very well but I hope you get the idea.

"also you make it seem like it was necessary for us to be punished in order to get to heaven. this seems odd because it's like it was God's will that man wouldn't be able to get to heaven without punishment"

No, that's not what I meant. The punishment is not being able to go to heaven and having to spend eternity away from God. We sinned, so we can't get to heaven because God is just and can't allow sin in. But because he's also loving, he sent Jesus so he could take our sins instead, so now we can get to heaven.

The angel thing sounds kinda weird, I've never heard of anything like that before. But there is a spiritual world out there that we're not usually aware of, so things like that can happen.

it's not contacting God, it's more private and special"

Contacting God is personal and special (at least that's what I believe anyway)

"is this the sin of Adam and Eve?"

Originally yes, but everyone has sin.

Do you go to a religious school or something? It's just you seem to know a lot about Christianity while regarding it as very impersonal and ceremonial if you know what I mean. I don't think I'd like that at all - my school is a state school and God barely gets a look in apart from RE and our SU.

Anyway, that's me for now. Again, sorry for the Bible-bashing ! Hopefully this won't end up in a big argument, cos that's not the point. I just like talking about it. Hope life's going well for you. Write back!

it is nice to have an intelligent conversation about this with someone that's open to other people's opinions. i don't get that much IRL, that's why hootoo is so great.

about the bible, i think we're going to have to agree to disagree. i think that since god didn't sit down and write it himself it's rather suspect, especially since through time bits would have changed through translation and through the telling of the stories.

about the hypothetical Muslin (love that phrase by the way), you say he's trying to find God but he's doing it in the wrong way. what if all the religions are actually part of the same bigger picture? what if God takes on different forms according to the different people, so every religion leads to a common heaven where all the good go? if that was true then people would be able to say 'i've got my god you've got yours', but this is just an idea i've had recently. i doubt that it's true, mainly because of all the inter religion wars there have been over time. it's pretty silly idea but i thought i'd mention it anyway.

"God doesn't want us to be robots"

yeah that's probably right. if there was no choice then happiness would die away and all the worlds would turn into cold machinery rather than warm and loving people. (a sort of quote from His Dark Materials. sorry)

"Contacting God is personal and special"

yes i know, but this seems even more private than that. see how weird it sounded when i first mentioned it? even though it feels good it's difficult to put into words other that telling someone the method and everyone has different results so no one will ever be able to tell if theirs was the same as someone elses. plus there's nothing said, no prayer or anything. it's all felt. communication through feelings. sounds weird i know, but i like weirdness.

our school isn't like a catholic school or anything, we just have 3 chapel services a week, which are basically a chance to make sure everyone's there and haven't gone off anywhere. the sunday one is anyway. it's like a giant roll call.

i don't mind the Bible bashing. in fact, do you have any ideas on what we could do for a short 15 minute servie this sunday? i'm on the chapel comittee, don't know why so don't ask, and we do an evening service every term. most of the members have left and currently it looks like it's just me, one other guy and the chaplain doing the service. we've been looking for a theme and so far our best one is about being loyal to your duties because the other guy is doing coursework on that and has lots he can read. we wanted something funny and relevant but we didn't really have enough time.

Hi! How's it going?
What you were saying there about 'aren't all gods the same' is kinda a popular thing with some of my friends. The only thing I can say is that gods in different religions are so different, how could they all be the same?
Bible translating is a hard one too, because people can take words completely differently depending on which one you read. Personally I hate using the King James, because no-one can understand it. The NIV is probably the most accurate modern one. There's this new Bible out called the 100 Minute Bible where, apparently, they leave out all the broing bits that everyone skips. I don't like them leaving bits out, but it's probably good to get people starting to read it if they wouldn't normally.
I've never actually read His Dark Materials - at least, I read the first one but that's it. Some churches banned people from reading them, but I think that's a bit stupid - they did the same thing with Harry Potter and with the Da Vinci Code, and I've read all those without a problem. Do you read much? What books are you into?
That's kind of a tough one about the service thing. It must be really hard thinking of something if you don't actually believe what you're talking about. The only thing I can think of is helping those in need, cos I'm doing a talk on that in our Christian Union in a couple of weeks. It's quite topical cos of Hurricane Katrina and all that, and if you need some Bible references I can give you some. Hope that helps!
Anyway have a good weekend! Write soon.

"The only thing I can say is that gods in different religions are so different, how could they all be the same?"

they could be projections of the same entity, of different perceptions from different people of a common being. it's unlikely though.

i thought it was a sin to remove or add anything from/to the Bible because that would be desecrating it or something.

His Dark Materials is rather anti religion but not specifically to Christianist. the god in question probably is God but he's called The Authority so it's different and instead of the church it's called the Magisterium. basically if people are going to get offended by it then they should just not watch it. banning it is just being narrow minded. and Harry Potter, yes there's magic in it but it's not enticing people to worship satan is it? banning it is just stupid! i haven't read the Da Vinci Code but i want to.

i have periods when i read loads and i have times when i don't have time. it's a shame because i really like reading. i have abut 60 books, mostly terry pratchett, which were given to me by my uncle and i want to read them but i haven't got time at the moment.

the service is ok now. we've sort of got it sorted but there's still only about 2 people doing it.

"It must be really hard thinking of something if you don't actually believe what you're talking about."

the thing is most of the stuff they talk about that's not in the bible readings is relevant and mostly interesting. we've got a good chaplain and he tells good stories in chapel which relate to what he's trying to say. i believe in the message and during the prayers i pray along with everyone else because the prayers are for things like the victims of Hurricane Katrina or the Tsunami and stuff like that. just because i'm not a christian doesn't mean i can't send a prayer to help someone. if i was asking for help myself i'd be a hypocrite but if i'm sending it to someone else that's ok.

"they could be projections of the same entity, of different perceptions from different people of a common being. it's unlikely though."

Yeah, cos in some cases there are direct contradictions between religions. Eg Hinduism teaches that we are reincarnated, but Christianity teaches that we go to heaven or hell. Someone's got to be wrong somewhere.

"i thought it was a sin to remove or add anything from/to the Bible because that would be desecrating it or something"

Yep, there's a warning against changing the Bible in Revelation. I think the issue is that the Bible is God's message to us, and he wanted all of it to be there. If you take some of it away, you're taking away what God wants to say to us; and if you add things to it, you're pretending that's what God said. So none of it is good, which is why I'm a bit wary of this new Bible. But if it's not claiming to be the whole Bible, and if people don't substitute it for the Bible, it should be OK. As long as people just treat it as an introduction to the Bible and not the Bible itself.

I don't agree with banning books either. Take the Da Vinci Code. When the church banned it, it looked as if it was saying, "Oh, help! Someone's found out all our dirty secrets! Quick, make sure no-one reads it and finds out everything we're trying to cover up!" When if you actually look at the historical background, Dan Brown's 'evidence' is a load of rubbish. I wouldn't stop you from reading it, but just take what he says with a huge pinch of salt and look up the facts for yourself. And as for Harry Potter, you might as well ban Lord of the Rings, which, incidentally, was written by a Catholic. It's more about the fight of good against evil than devil worship. Terry Pratchett is great, he's funny and philosophical at the same time.

"the service is ok now. we've sort of got it sorted but there's still only about 2 people doing it"

Cool, let me know how it goes!

"just because i'm not a christian doesn't mean i can't send a prayer to help someone. if i was asking for help myself i'd be a hypocrite but if i'm sending it to someone else that's ok"

Is it not a bit pointless praying to a God you don't think exists? And if you do think he exists, why don't you pray for yourself too?
Just to let you know I'm praying for you.

Write back soon!

thanks for the prayers.

"Is it not a bit pointless praying to a God you don't think exists?"

i think i might have confused you a bit here. i didn't say i don't believe in God, i said i'm not a christian. if the christians are sending out a prayer to help people and all i have to do to help too is bow my head then i can do that because afterwards i will be able to lift my head high.

"And if you do think he exists, why don't you pray for yourself too?"

because if i did it would be like asking for help from soomeone who is very busy when i don't really have any problems that i can't handle. it's like taking the benefits without the sacrifices, being selfish, and i don't want to do that.

about the Da Vinci Code, i haven't read it but it's not a factual book is it? now saying 'this happened'. it's faction (fact/fiction mix) which means it's fiction set in a background that happened, but as for the story, it's all made up. i've heard it's a pretty good read too. i could be talking out of my *rse here because i haven't read it yet but i've heard about it.

"And as for Harry Potter, you might as well ban Lord of the Rings,"

exactly! they don't try to ban anything else with magic in it, why Harry Potter? because it's successful? there's nothing anti-religion in Harry Potter. they celebrate christmas which shows certain elements of christianity doesn't it? there's no reason for banning it because it's not doing anything and everyone knows it's all made up.

Banning Harry Potter is just stupid. I've never heard of anyone becoming a devil-worshipper because of JK Rowling. I can see where they're coming from on the Da Vinci Code, because there are a lot of dangerous lies in it about Christianity. He presents his history of the church as true when there's no historical evidence for it whatsoever. But as long as you take it with a huge pinch of salt and realise that Dan Brown is making everything up, I can't see the problem in reading it. It's actually pretty good for starting conversations with non-Christians about Christianity, like the Passion of the Christ was.

"it would be like asking for help from soomeone who is very busy when i don't really have any problems that i can't handle. it's like taking the benefits without the sacrifices, being selfish, and i don't want to do that"

Yeah, but what if God wants to talk to you and help you out with your problems?

"i didn't say i don't believe in God, i said i'm not a christian"

OK, so you believe there is a god, just not the Judeo-Christian God? And you don't believe in Christianity anyway. Just out of interest, what do you think of Jesus? I mean, do you think he was insane, or just a nice guy?

Gotta go now cos I'm meant to be doing a politics essay. Hope you had a good weekend and your service went well! Write back soon.

yeah the service was fine. a grand total of 10 minutes, which isn't really long enough, but it didn't matter. we'll do better next time.

sorry for not replying for ages. i haven't been online for a while, partly because i forgot (shock horror) but mostly because the internet in my boarding house has ed up again. and apparently it's my laptop that's causing the problems with the ip addresses! i've been accused of being a hacker i don't know how many times!

"Yeah, but what if God wants to talk to you and help you out with your problems?"

i'll let him off the hook for a while. he doesn't have to worry about me right now. and like i said, if i was taking up his time when there are others who need him that's being selfish. (i know it doesn't work like that and he can talk to more than one person at once but i'd still feel selfish if i was complaining about my prep when there are people dying elsewhere).

"OK, so you believe there is a god, just not the Judeo-Christian God? And you don't believe in Christianity anyway. Just out of interest, what do you think of Jesus? I mean, do you think he was insane, or just a nice guy?"

i think God probably exists, but that out interpretation isn't 100% accurate. there probably is a God that the Jews and Christians think is their God and other people think is theirs, but i think we've been through this already. about Jesus, there's a wonderful quote about him in the hitchhiker's radio series. "200 years after one man was nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if everyone was nice to each other for a change..." basically i think he's like all the other people in history who went against the norm and were shunned by society until society realised that they were wrong and the people they shunned were right. like when people thought the earth was flat or that the sun orbited us. jesus was a nice guy who lived among tw*ts, and in those situations nice guys always get the worst of it.

i've gotta go now too because i have a rehearsal in 10 minutes and if i'm late i will be lynched! bye

Hey, glad it went well! What's the rehearsal for, do you do drama or something?
Glad your Internet's back to normal... the Internet in school is really slow at the minute but thankfully I can use it at home instead. One of my friends had her phone lines cut off by workmen outside her house, and now she has no phone or Internet. Which isn't good, cos we have two essays due in on Monday (which I'm meant to be writing now and haven't actually started).

"i know it doesn't work like that and he can talk to more than one person at once but i'd still feel selfish if i was complaining about my prep when there are people dying elsewhere"

He still wants you to talk to him about it! And it doesn't work like that, because God is outside of time and therefore he isn't constricted by it. If you're interested (probably not) Mere Christianity by CS Lewis is really interesting about this.
Talking of CS Lewis, the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe is coming out on film soon! I'm excited! It was my favourite book when I was a kid. But now people don't read it because it's an allegory for Christianity, which is just as bad as the church banning books.

"jesus was a nice guy who lived among tw*ts, and in those situations nice guys always get the worst of it"

Yeah, Jesus was a nice guy, but he was so much more than that! He was God in a human body. Just a thought: if he was just a nice guy, why did he claim to be God? That's not really a nice thing to do.

Anyway, hope and pray you're doing well. Write back soon!

OK, I seem to be logged in as Twilight_Wolf, which used to be my BBC user name ages ago before I changed it to Black_Pepper. Sorry if that confused you... I've no idea why it happened. This is a different computer to the one I usually use; maybe that's why. I'll try to fix it now.

yeah the name did slightly confuse...

the rehearsal is for the school musical, West Side Story. it's not a drama class thing, anyone in the school can be in this people who do drama as a subject have separate plays too. as for the internet, it's ok but still confusing. last night it turned off while i was out of my room and i don't know if it's back on yet, but at least i've got the right ip address now.

"He still wants you to talk to him about it!"

prep isn't exactly a life changing thing for me right now, and i was using that as an example anyway. don't worry about me talking to God. if i need to then i will but right now i'm fine. i've got a few things to sort out IRL anyway, but it's all fine.

yeah, i heard LWW was coming out soon. i liked those books when i was young, although i think i had them on tape. LWW is the second book though and the first is something like The Magician's Nephew. i don't think it matters if it's an allegory for Christianity as long as it's a good story. never mind the background or religious undertones, if it's entertaining or interesting then it's a good book.

"Just a thought: if he was just a nice guy, why did he claim to be God? That's not really a nice thing to do."

for a bible basher that's a weird view to take. jesus didn't claim to be god, he said he was the son of god. he called himself the "son of god" most of the time didn't he? i also thought he called himself "son of man" but i've just been harshly corrected by 2 people here. is there a quote in the bible where he says that he is god? and not just an implication.

I'm still using the other computer so hopefully the name'll sort itself out when I go back on the main one.
West Side Story sounds cool. Our school did A Midsummer Night's Dream last year and it was really good. There's an opera coming up but I'm disqualified from it by a complete and utter lack of musical ability.
I heard of some people who wouldn't let their kids read LWW because it had a Christian message; I thought that was one of the most stupid things I've ever read.

"for a bible basher that's a weird view to take"

It's not my view, it's just a problem I'm pointing out with the 'just a nice guy' theory. Nice people don't claim to be God, unless they're telling the truth.

"i also thought he called himself "son of man" but i've just been harshly corrected by 2 people here."

Yep Jesus did call himself the Son of Man on several occasions. It's a reference to Daniel 7:13-14, which says "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

"is there a quote in the bible where he says that he is god? and not just an implication."

Hmm, I've heard this question asked before, and I have a book that answers it really well and gives you references. Unfortunately, I've lent it out and I can't remember any of the references off the top of my head. What about John 14:9-11: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." It sounds pretty clear to me there that he's claiming to be God, but I suppose you could argue against it if you really wanted to. Sorry I can't answer your question any better; I'll ask someone about it if you want and get back to you. Hope that helps anyway!

PS: What does IRL mean? And who exactly are the League of Superpowers?

IRL is an abbreviation for In Real Life, and the League of Super Powers is my society. U1654545. i will asnwer that other stuff when i have more time but i need to get to lessons now.

Aha... being the ignoramus that I am, all I could think of was an abbreviation for Ireland, which didn't make much sense. The League of Super Powers looks cool! I think I have my ID back to normal now.

yeah you do. sorry about not replying for ages, i forgot i hadn't replied to your last big posting. well here goes...

"I heard of some people who wouldn't let their kids read LWW because it had a Christian message; I thought that was one of the most stupid things I've ever read."

what the heck-spelt-with-two-L's? christians not wanting children to read something with an anti-christian message is fair enough i suppose but not wanting them to read it because it does have a christian message is absolutely stupid, unless they're some sort of hardcore atheist or something.

"Nice people don't claim to be God, unless they're telling the truth."

so maybe he was telling the truth.

"Yep Jesus did call himself the Son of Man on several occasions."

ha! i knew it! i'll show those two. they thought i was being an idiot when i said about him saying that.

"but not wanting them to read it because it does have a christian message is absolutely stupid, unless they're some sort of hardcore atheist or something"

I think it's because it's not politically correct to be religious; people don't want their kids to be intolerant of other people's beliefs. At least that's the explanation they gave. I think it's going a bit crazy though; soon you won't be allowed to talk about religion at all because you're inciting people to terrorism or something.

"so maybe he was telling the truth."

I think he was.

"they thought i was being an idiot when i said about him saying that."

If you want you could look up Matthew 9:6, 16:27, 17:12, or 20:18. He uses the title loads of times but those are the only ones I could find off the top of my head.

Hope and pray you're well. Write back soon!

yeah i'm fine thanks. hope you're doing ok.

"I think it's because it's not politically correct to be religious"

that's stupid. what is this country coming to if people aren't even allowed to be religious without being politically incorrect? there was somewhere, i think in england, where toy pigs were banned because they were offensive to Muslims. IF THE MUSLIMS DON'T LIKE TOY PIGS THEN DON'T BUY THEM!!! it's not hard to leave something like a little plastic pig alone is it? our country is so messed up right now it's almost comical. but then again almost the entire planet is messed up in pretty much every way right now.

"He uses the title loads of times"

thank you! i knew i wasn't crazy.

just wondering, if you knew someone who's name was Jonathan what would you call them socially? John or Jo? because someone here was talking about her dad being called Jonathan and it was abbreviated to Jo and i said i thought that was a little unusual and she had a full on go at me about it! she nearly had steam coming out of her ears. girls can get really worked up about some pretty trivial things.

"there was somewhere, i think in england, where toy pigs were banned because they were offensive to Muslims"

Yeah I heard that, it's getting a bit out of control. Apparently they can use this new religious hatred bill to stop people talking about religion. Hopefully they aren't monitoring this conversation or we'll be taken away by the secret police...

"if you knew someone who's name was Jonathan what would you call them socially?"

I know loads of Jonathans and they all have different names... there's Jon and Jonny and Jonie and Jonty. I've never heard of Jo though, that's a new one.