h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Your post from yesterday:
"*Watch* him around animals."
I do!
" Don't get a pet, but if a neighbour has one, watch him."
We've had pets.
As far as I know, he treat them normally.
At the moment we only have fish.
I have my tropical tank & he has his 2 goldfish.
It's his responsibility to take care of them.
He looks after them while I clean out the tank once a week
He has never mistreat them, nor tried to put anything in the water, etc.
" What kind of fascination is he showing? One of the early-ish symptoms of DANGER is violence toward animals, and no remorse, or really any feeling except possibly irritation at having been caught. Don't get a pet, ever. If he decides he doesn't like it, he'll destroy it. Then he'll escalate. All APDs are psychological addicts of several things, including repetition-compulsions, sexual behaviours, neatness, counting, fire-setting, memorising lists, violence, arranging little rocks in order... you name it."
I can't see that he treat animals any differently to how my 4 y.o. grandson does. Andrew does line things up, like dominoes, or lego people, just to knock them down, but that is listed as autistic behaviour.
" The same holds true, but not as 'addiction' per se, for autistic and AS people. They are usually too withdrawn to become violent, to the point of being dangerous to society, except and unless they were abused as well as being *different*, or have some other reason for developing APD.

Andrew has the potential to be his SD, only lower on the social-function scale. He'll learn to make the right social faces, though, as he gets older. BUT at the moment, there is nothing that says he must go that way. It is potential, not fact. He has not got into a habit of hanging people's cats by the neck, for *fun*, or wringing birds' necks, or tormenting caterpillars (I hope) even."
No, I cannot imagine Andrew doing this.
He shows interest in caterpillars, but I have told him that they grow into butterflies, and he loves butterflies.
We have a huge bird table which we put bread & water on each morning for the wild birds.
Andrew likes to see the different types; we have a family of ring-neck doves, who have just had a and Andrew watches it with a smile on his face through our patio door
He always comes and tells me when "my" blackbird is in the birdbath
"With swift intervention, he's likely to end up somewhere like David's son, just on the edge of the law, and the margins of society. You're doing so much. And all you can do may not be enough, but it still may.
THAT is why I've been leaning on you so hard about the SD. It is not just Andrew whose future is at stake here.
I need to go for a few hours. I'll be back later.
Glad you do all that charting."

Your post last night:
"AGB, Lucinda's right. I've been so driven by anxiety that I haven't stopped often enough to say some equally true and important things:
Your love for Andrew is precisely why he is in as good shape as he is, that and the care you have spent so much energy taking of him and his needs. He may yet be all right*. I've been focusing more on what /could/ go wrong, because those are things people don't get told, and don't want to hear.
I understand all this
It is a bonus for me to talk to someone who will *listen* and offer advice.
The very fact that I can talk about him and his/our problems is very theraputic for me.
I know I am doing the best I can.
No-one gets taught how to be a parent.
You have to do the best you can.

"Mike said he works with kids like that, and comparitively A is just not so bad. A is a lifeful for you, but you do not have the basis for comparison (other than SD) on which to judge. A is only 'not so bad' because of YOUR work, love, dedication, energy, and care."

It is hard work, but worth it.

"Please regard much of what I say as 'ways to avoid the worst case scenario', or as me insisting you look at what all can go wrong in order to be able to avoid it."
Yes, I want to know everything that can go wrong! It is also good to know things to avoid.
" I have never spoken at such length with a parent, because all the other parents who have presented me with information on the subject elicited the response 'insitutionalise and do it now'. I have felt no need to say that to you, because A is so well off where he is, and is not a danger to you, and may never become one. These things are your doing".
I cannot see the day coming when I will institutionalise my son.
Only *when* and *if* he becomes a danger to society/me/himself will I consider it.
"You are not inclined to bury your head in the sand. The times you've tried, I have tried to get you to unbury it ( not entirely successfully), but I have faith that you would prefer to know that A is safe - from being dangerous if it comes to that - than to pretend a few good talkings to can help him. I believe in your ability to rise to the occasion. You have done, so far, and I see no reason for you to stop."
A few boyfriends ago, there was a man whom Andrew idolized.
I don't know quite what it was, but {I will call him}stood "no nonsence" from Andrew, with just one word he practically had Andrew jumping through hoops.even told him off for sucking on his arms & creating a "lovebite/hickey" which he then said was a buise - given to him at school by a bully! Andrew had the grace to look shame-faced. Yet when *I* told him off for doing it, he went nuts at me & insisted that "the bully at school" had done it.
is still a friend, but I don't see that much of him. I know if I did have any trouble with Andrew, I could get in touch withand he would help.has a dobermann dog. A 10-stone dobermann dog. The day that A met was quite amusing. I don't know who won the battle of wills.

"I've been heavy-handed. I'm sorry. It's too much experience and injury talking. I know what humans (variety APD) are capable of being and it turns my bowels to water to think about yet another one loose in the world. This doesn't mean I'm not trying to be accurate. I just cannot possibly be wholly subjective. I am afraid for you, for Andrew, and for society, and that makes me bludgeon points home which I could make more gently. I am really sorry."
Don't be. I would rather know the worst-case-scenario so that I can be prepared.

"I know the things I say are hurtful. Despite what I said above, and I'm going to do my best to keep that in check, I would NEVER say these things to someone online, if I didn't feel a moral mandate to speak the undiluted truth to anyone who asks an honest question (or doesn't) in a matter involving the future of a child. This is one of the reasons I am such a broken record about you needing to get Andrew real, professional psychology and psychiatry NOW, and you needing some therapy and a live-in-person support network NOW. I've walked away from this computer at times, feeling as though I am guilty of gross irresponsibility, for trying to 'help' at a distance this way. If so much were not at stake, I would not do. You still must get the proper professional care for both of you NOW."
I'm on a waiting list to see someone.
I'll keep you informed.
"You're the most realistic and loving, pro-actively concerned mother we've met in our life. If parents were more like you, this would be a better world."

Thank you so much.
I appreciate all you are doing for me.
I appreciate all the support.
Just knowing there's someone else who cares is a priceless boon.
It's reassuring to know that I am not making things worse, that I am indeed helping my son.
After all, he is the most important thing in my life right now.
I hope and pray he will lead a relatively normal life as an adult.
But I will be ever-vigilant.
I know the signs to look for....

Thank you, Kassandra, and I hope yourhas gone now!



~AGB~
(*
*courtesy of Argon0

hi mrs ann we sory for bother u but cood u mabe help us thers a problim n weer reely scard its in that royl we thred u startid for us wif r frens in r own paj n then its also heer http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F52180?thread=124786 its sumbys tryen to hurt us we need to run awa but the biguns sa we wont giv in to terorists only weer terorfyd can u help wifout it ben bad for u we panikt lots a lil kids thet sum pepl dont biliv exist cryen n cryen wy peple so oful its de bad big pepl al ovr agan n its not rit no it isn not evn a lil bit rit wy cant them trublmakrs mak it for sumby els we dint do nuthin its to hard ther tryn to scar us of heer n its worken to we ritid this to mr andy to cos hes r frend but we no u r gud to us lils n mabe cood help if he dont be heer toda thank u by by

Wow...long postings...and not that horrible writing again Arpeggio

Niwt,

Im Pat and Im 4. How good did you rite when you were two years old? Huh? Please don't get on the kids case. You want to no what we had to deal with you can read the link above your post. We reely dont care if you cant read fonetik english. We have lots other problims rite now. I protect the littles here and that wasnt called for and I honistly dont apreciate it.

Sory if this isnt polite and all but its been one of the crummyest 36 hours we can remember in 40 yeers. If you cant read it, we do have other frends who can. They helped us and the littles werent talking to you anyhow so please dont say nothing unless its constructive alrite?

Brother. Theyre 2 year olds asken for help. Now theyre upset and crying and I gotta go.

I am never this rude but that just was the worst thing you or anyone coulda said rite now.

Pat

_________________________________________
Niwt~

Wow. You really couldn't have timed that observation worse. Things have been really sxxtty since one person decided it would be fun to make LeKZ miserable. That was about 36 hours ago. We've slept almost not at all, and been dealing with a lot of terror among little ones who felt that they were not safe, because we older ones were panicky.

Pat has *never* been so rude to anyone. So far as we know, in 40 years. The little ones were asking Archangel Galaxy Babe for help. The ones who wrote that are actually two years old. I am not going to apologise for Pat. Pat protects all 8000 or so 6 and under children here. They have had a beastly awful time, as have we all.

I'm afraid I agree that your comment was un-called-for. We did try to explain, last time, that the toddlers can type, albeit very phonetically and painstakingly. They are feeling rather crushed, and certainly will not risk having anything they say be read at h2g2 again.

I know meant what you said a joke. You don't have any way of knowing what a stab it really was. I, Arpeggio, had nothing whatsoever to do with it. The children trusted AGB as someone who might help them. 'Not that horrible writing again' was not at all encouraging.

Would you please talk this over with your parent/s? We are in no shape to try to explain it all. I am not angry with you. None of the adults here is. You could not possibly have known. It was not meant to be a malicious remark. The timing was just perfect insofar as it could not have been worse in any way.

I need to go. There are a great many distraught toddlers and older children who need my help. It was not your fault and no one here will hold it against you. You simply did not consider that you were speaking to tiny and frightened children. How were you supposed to know?

Arpeggio, for LeKZ
wishing we'd not looked here...

I am reading all the relevant threads.
I will get back to you.
I had a bad weekend with Andrew and my nerves are shot.
Sorry for the delay.

~AGB~

Dear ArchGB,

Your nerves are not going to get better by being involved in this rubbish.

You probably should give it the miss and just enjoy yourself, and vent a bit about the weekend.

Kassandra's worked round the clock since mid-Saturday (0330 Monday here) and is resting off and on, when she can. If you don't mind someone different to talk to, there are a handful of us available, including me.

Sorry. We should have thought that if you were offline, it meant things were bad. Pain and panic have a way of making people self-absorbed. Drat. .

I'm not going to be online *all* night for a second night, but we'll be here the next hour or so, at least. There are some outright lies we need to call attention to, in the least provoking way possible... it's the working out of what that is, that will be the hard bit.



Arpeggio, from a sleepy Kassandra, for LeKZ

Please, don't waste your time...

It is not worth you becoming at all upset. You have other problems.

It's 0517 and David just woke up to leave for the office. This means two nights in a row...

We don't know what matters any more, except that no one we care about be hurt further (which would include us). We have to edit that Colorado entry and right quickly, too.

Will probably be online in about 6 hours, doing just that thing, and looking up to see whether the sky's about to fall. Your note at the thread we left you was pretty cryptic... leastways, we didn't understand it .

Too tired and bashed up to try much any more.

Arpeggio, for an internally trashed, smashed, bashed formerly happy person/s called LeKZ

Arpeggio

I've said before, if you find it difficult to cope with social interaction on h2g2 at any time, please do not post here, just stay away from the keyboard for a while. You must think about the feelings of others before you press the 'post message' button. Niwt is a youngster and she didn't deserve to be castigated by you.

Have a cake Niwt.

Peta

Peta,

I am surprised, and rather bewildered. Pat is four years old, and said so. Pat was defending two year olds, whose feelings were very hurt. All of us are fond of Niwt, and know she is thirteen.

From the perspective of a four year old, thirteen is very grown up lady indeed.

There must have been a miscommunication somewhere. We have been altogether open about the fact that we are a multiple person. We refer to it and talk about it some on our home space. We offer links to our websites, and we have often engaged in conversation on the subject. We are open to questions from anyone.

Mark addressed different ones of us by our own names. We were under the impression that folk here were starting to be acquainted with multiplicity. Perhaps you were not one of those folk? I'm sorry, Peta, we had no way of knowing that you were not.

Well, at least now you are. If a child posts (which happens seldom), and ususally the spelling is a giveaway , though they try to remember to say how old they are, that child is a *real* child. Pat was speaking to Niwt as four year old to thirteen year old. I made it clear that no *adults* were upset.

I believe Niwt is a big enough girl to be able to take criticism from a four year old in stride, don't you? I hope she responds soon, so we adults stop speculating on what she can and can't handle, because she is the person who would know best.

Arpeggio, for LeKZ (except the children, who were blocked from seeing this.)

*swears to high heavens*
I'm very sorry for everything...and I'm completely lost now...
My Dizo is looking over my shoulder.
We're at school.
No you're not Dizo.
She's making me do the mouse with my right hand
'Cos we're sharing a chair and she's pushing me
Now she's getting cross with me for posting this
Now she's laughing
No, Dizo, I won't.
She wants me to say that she's Exuberance Personified.
I can't move the mouse properly with this hand!!

Oh, and BTW, I have a 4-year-old sister. But she loves me
Sorry Arpeggio
Sorry Peta
Sorry GB
And even from the perspective from a 4-year-old, I am not even vaguely grown-up

Niwt~

It was me that Peta was mad at cos of I told you off kinda sharp. Im woryid cos of the acounts in Arpeggios name and she had to take the heet for my tellen you off. Peta cood close the acount and wed all reely hate that.

I dont no from down here you thirteens look prity big to me !

Is ther any way you can tel Peta this was a big misundestanding so nobodys in truble not you or us? Shes like pertecting you and I just was doin that same thing only for our inside litle ones. So I no how she feels and all from a bigun 13 isnt very old but its 3.sumpin times my age so thats ooold.

I just wish it didnt hapend but her this is h2g2 the big permanint arkive of all sily things anybody evr wisht they never said.

Maybe since your a ACE and a Scout to you cood just say we made up back frends agen if its the truth. Id like to be. I dont no hardly any outsid peple that arnt biguns and your in bitween maybe if we cood be frends I cood help you unerstand us mor so then ther wooden be mistakes thatd be good. Im realy a nice persin wen the chilren I pertect arnt upset by sompin and I even got sum maners. But I wont call you Miss if you dont asume Im a boy or a girl Im just a persin If you mess up Id hafta call you Miss so you gota remeber.

Are we okay now? Can we be frends please?

Im sory this mornen and all that its my job tho not me. Im a chaterbox but you probly notict that alredy .

By by hopen to here from you soon,

from me Pat and I realy am four and I only spel this good if I go very very slow.

Arpeggio

You're covering your bad behaviour with excuses. I really don't care one way or another if you've got multiple personalities. I'm just not interested.

Many people on h2g2 have conditions that they have to cope with and they do so very well. You're not a special case. I've told you before, if you're consistently rude to people, for any reason, you'll be excluded from h2g2.

Peta - do you realize what you are doing? You are intimidating a four-year old child who is trying to protect thousands of children most of whom are even younger, who have been unimaginably badly abused, I honestly mean unimaginably badly. And you know what - Pat was not even that rude! And she'd just asked you to be friends! And she apologised! Why do you do this??? WHY??? Do you have any idea what incredible pain you are causing??? It was just a very simple misunderstanding between two children, the one thirteen, and the other four!!! LeKZ was one of the most incredible people over here, and what they had to offer was of incalculable value, and now they're gone!!!!

Peta - do you realize what you are doing? You are intimidating a four-year old child who is trying to protect thousands of children most of whom are even younger, who have been unimaginably badly abused, I honestly mean unimaginably badly. And you know what - Pat was not even that rude! And she'd just asked you to be friends! And she apologised! Why do you do this??? WHY??? Do you have any idea what incredible pain you are causing??? It was just a very simple misunderstanding between two children, the one thirteen, and the other four!!! LeKZ was one of the most incredible peoples over here, and what they had to offer was of incalculable value, and now they're gone!!!!

Peta, can you give me any idea why Arpeggio's page doesn't have anything on it any more?

Please, Peta, talk to me at least ... I wish to talk to you about LeKZ! I feel so incredibly bad!!! It feels to me that you have hurt me as well, and almost mortally!!! Kassandra and Galaxy Babe were here having one of the most important discussions ever, on Galaxy Babe's page - do you understand what GB's problem was, and how Kassandra was helping her????!!!! I have to know where LeKZ is!!! I absolutely desperately need them!!!!!

Oh deary deary deary me what have I done?
Sowwy

Niwt, you have done NOTHING wrong.

That's what everyone says but if not why is everyone mad?