h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

That's always a possibility, Mina. Families can fall out over the silliest of things.

I remember when Lorna died and we were packing her house up, there was this ceramic swan, that K (my son) always liked. I knew it was in one of the boxes that were to be transported to the charity shops (we didn't approve of that, but that's a whole other story) so I went rooting for it (well, the will did state that the contents of the house were to be given to my husband so I was only looking something that he officially owned) I got some right looks from hubby's sister at the time, like I was stealing something from her ( bitch that she still is).

We still have it, it's worth nowt, it's mass produced tat, and sits on our mantelpiece, next to Big Daddy (from Bioshock)

Sorry for all the brackets in here, I might take some back later, I've got some shelves to put up

And I agree with Hoo (who'd a thunk that, eh?) in post 20

#5 "Dad had them at the wake, but she refused to talk to anyone! Obviously we should have given them to her dad, but we didn't forsee her deciding not to talk to anyone again, nor my dad's brother vanishing with no forwarding address."

I'm not sure the wake would have been a good time to hand over the departeds possessions - or maybe it is the best time? Any thoughts?

We've no idea, it's the first time any of us have had to arrange a funeral & a wake, let alone deal with bequests.

My first impression would be that it's best sorted after the wake (but not long afterwards).

If you have an estate worth over £250 000 it can't be sorted until the will is ratified by a court and it goes to probate. That takes a few weeks.

If it was me, I'd approach it based on how I'd explain it to a policeman. "Well, officer, I have the rings because..."

I'd want to follow that ellipsis with a clear description, with dates, of the efforts that had been made to contact this woman, and a hardcopy of the correspondence that had been sent, making it very obvious that all reasonable efforts had been made but it was physically impossible for you to have got the stuff to her, since despite your best efforts you couldn't find her.

Once I had that explanation in place, I'd sleep easy with the rings in my possession. But not before.

Presumably it's Mina's dad and uncle as executors who need to have the answer. Mina could just plead ignorance (?).

She could. I wouldn't. I wouldn't/couldn't advise it either, not knowing where the law stands on receiving improper bequests - do they count as "stolen" goods? No idea.

Isn't this question ultimately less about what's legal (because let's be honest it doesn't sound like this woman's going to be calling the police to help recover "her" rings) and more about being able to relax/sleep at night/look yourself in the mirror?

If you could take something you know full well belongs rightfully to someone else, crack on. The very fact Mina's even asking the question shows she's not that kind of person.

"... she left everything to her 3 sons between them except her wedding and engagement rings which she left to my cousin."

I wonder whether the cousin was expecting to receive these rings? It was a very specific request. Everything else was to be shared amongst her sons. Maybe the cousin asked her grandmother for them at some point. If that was the case one might have expected the cousin to have asked for them.

Is she on the electoral roll in the town where you live? You might be able to find her that way. Likewise, yoru father might be able to contact the council as executor of the will and locate her that way.

B

I thought you could only get the name from the electoral role if you know the address, rather than the other way around?

From memory she was expecting them, if I'm not remembering wrong. It seems most people think I shouldn't just say 'hey dad, might as well let me have them' which isn't the answer I wanted. But yes, if I was going to just take them, well I wouldn't have mentioned it. If I had them they'd probably just remind me for the rest of my life that my nan liked my cousin better. Although she did give me one ring when I was young because 'I didn't have a daughter to give it to' which I later had to have cut off my finger by Granddad. I'll just treasure that instead. Probably made of tin.

I'm unsure exactly where the line is drawn between borrowing and stealing, but if your intention is merely to wear the rings from time to time, then couldn't you borrow them until the matter is formally sorted?

Extract from the Theft Act: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60

"(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly."

Just don't say I told you to.

They wouldn't fit me, my fingers are too skinny, they would be a keepsake. If something happens to my dad, I'll continue 'looking after them' for cousin xxx and her descendents until we find out where they live. I will remind dad he should maybe try to find her, but I'm sure he'll just get all bolshy and insist she knows where he lives if she wants them.

So I won't be permanently depriving her of them, just until we find her.

I think I treasure real "stories" of peoples lives more than "things". Learning about grandparents as children, teenagers, young parents etc, with photographs if they exist. A sense of a personal history.

Have you tried sending her a message (rather than a friend request) via facebook, asking her where she would like your dad to send the rings to? Fair enough if she doesn't want to be your friend on there but I thought you could still send messages?

No, because I want to be 100% sure it's the right person before I start doing that. Pretty sure it is, but you just never know.

I've got a few things to suggest to my dad now anyway, personally if she's going to be that up herself she can poke her friendship. Sour grapes? Moi?

If the formal-letter-via-Facebook doesn't appeal, your dad could send a formal (unsealed, so they know it's not from a nutter) letter via the elections office. We used to pass stuff on. Mind you, this was a few years ago. Probably not allowed to now because of terrorist laws or something.

There are two versions of the electoral register - the one that can be sold for marketing purposes (which if you've any sense you opt out of) and the one used for official purposes, which contains absolutely everybody.* You can inspect this at the council offices (and usually the library) but you do have to comb through it line by line (which doesn't take as long as you might think, but still takes longer than you probably want to spend).

Mol

* Everybody that registers, that is; except for those who are allowed to remain 'hidden', usually for security reasons.

My late husband had some rings in his possession, which had been left to his daughters.

Neither of them had wanted to accept them at the time, but eventually after his death I made sure that they were handed to them.

Bequests are difficult aren't they at the best of times, but being involved at the time of a death makes logic fly out the window.

I really hope you can sort out this problem. You have my sympathy.

<>

That sounds like a memory to treasure.

As an aside, my stepdad's mum never appreciated his daily popping in visits, taking them for granted. She went on and on, though, about how good her other son was, who made such a special effort to pop in every second Saturday afternoon for an hour.

Nowt so queer as folks.

Deb